Zhung Kong Robbed?

[redacted]

You clearly have not been to many of the cave diving sites in the Mexico. Many are very isolated. They are well known, though, so any local could easily find out where they are. There is a good chance divers will be in the caves, with their cars and trucks unguarded and filled with valuables, nearly every day.

The shore diving sites in Curacao are more isolated than the ones in Bonaire.

Cenote would seem to have an occasional problem also: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/mexico/479865-cenotes.html As in Bonaire, the problem seems to be reduced when there are a number of dive groups at a site. In Bonaire, it is an easy drive along the road to find lone trucks.

 

[boulderjohn]

Cenote would seem to have an occasional problem also: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/mexico/479865-cenotes.html As in Bonaire, the problem seems to be reduced when there are a number of dive groups at a site. In Bonaire, it is an easy drive along the road to find lone trucks.

Did you read the Cenote thread, where they talk about how truly unusual this was, and how the people were caught?

In about 80% of the cave dives I have done in Mexico, we were the only ones there. I don't dispute the fact that it is possible to have some crime in those places. It is possible that some vehicles may be broken into on occasion. That can indeed happen anywhere. My point is that in those places it does not happen to the extent that there has to be a constant state of warning about it and constant discussions about it in forums like this. The dive guides go to those places virtually every day, with a full load of gear in their trucks. Come out from your dive and you can open your cooler, get a cold drink, eat a sandwich, switch your gear over to new tanks, and then head off to the next remote site. I'll be doing that in December, and I won't waste a second during the dive worrying about the stuff I left in the truck.

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

Well, from my viewpoint, "the locals" are as much a victim of crime as "the tourists". In my opinion this statement is completely false.

fixed that for ya Vince. Let us not forget that differing viewpoints are neither right nor wrong.

 

[Hintermann]

My wife and I were in the Yucatan in 2008 and did 9 Cenote dives, including the then relatively newly discovered Dreamgate. This was even more isolated than the others and to reach it, we had to drive along a few miles of very uneven dirt road covered on either side by shrubbery. The guide Budgie, my wife and I were the only 3 people on site and not only had we to leave Budgie's truck some distance away but had to winch down the tanks and climb down ladders to reach the jumping off point. Budgie lives in Tulum and so would not have left additional tanks and other bits and pieces in the truck if he had thought that he would be broken into. Nothing untoward happened and we had a great dive.

Of course I am aware that there is a lot of crime in Mexico and in a lot of other places but this business about leaving trucks unlocked with nothing inside but soiled shorts seems unique to Bonaire.

 

[redacted]

Of course I am aware that there is a lot of crime in Mexico and in a lot of other places but this business about leaving trucks unlocked with nothing inside but soiled shorts seems unique to Bonaire.

You really don't have to soil them but I guess that might be an effective deterrent.:shocked2:

 

[drrich2]

John:

Did you read the Cenote thread, where they talk about how truly unusual this was, and how the people were caught?

The armed robbery was considered quite unusual per that thread discussion. Scubamarketing posted:

The robbers were caught within a few days. This was an isolated incident, most criminals in the area know to stay away from the main drivers of tourist dollars (including SCUBA), so these guys were exceptionally stupid.

TS&M posted:

I've been diving in the Riviera Maya since 2007, and this robbery is the first time I've heard of a confrontational theft event. Theft from unattended cars, yes, but not assaults. I'm headed down there to cave dive at the end of this month, and I'm not worried about it at all. And most of the tourist cavern dive sites are well enough attended to make them unattractive to thieves.

In about 80% of the cave dives I have done in Mexico, we were the only ones there. I don't dispute the fact that it is possible to have some crime in those places. It is possible that some vehicles may be broken into on occasion. That can indeed happen anywhere. My point is that in those places it does not happen to the extent that there has to be a constant state of warning about it and constant discussions about it in forums like this.

True, and there are 2 main reasons.

1.) Bonaire has a well-known problem with sporadic petty theft from unattended rental trucks parked at dive sites. Most of this problem is eliminated by not leaving valuables in the truck by diving, and leaving doors unlocked & windows down. Many of us are fans of Bonaire, and since it's a popular shore diving destination that draws legions of divers, we like to 'get the word out' to warn newcomers so they can avoid problems and have a great trip without theft problems, and set their expectations so there are no nasty surprises.

2.) Some people can't get past the fact island law enforcement is not policing dive sites so you can take a picnic cooler, extra clothes or varied nicknacks and leave them in your truck unattended without some risk of your window being broken and your items taken. It is what it is, and some folks will not accept that and the arguing continues.

It's understandable. Sure, it'd be nice if we could haul around coolers in Bonaire. And you can...if you accept the probably small risk of theft and can deal with it and move on if it happens to you, or somebody waits with the truck while the rest dive. Some people wonder why the police don't 'do more,' and the police probably wonder why people leave stuff laying around unnecessarily in locked trucks to get windows broken & stolen. It's been pointed out in another thread that upping police presence would lead to increased costs that would be passed on to dive tourists (imagine the Stinapa marine park tag jumping from $25 to $35, for example), and so we'd all be getting robbed by the government instead of a small minority who insist on ignoring the customary precautions.

I'm not saying any of this makes theft 'okay,' 'right' or 'acceptable.' If I want to keep a $100 bill nailed to a tree in plain view in my front yard, and somebody walking by out front steals it, that is theft and it is morally and legally wrong. But if I don't want my $100 to be at high risk for theft, I can stick it in my wallet, or the bank.

When discussing crime in Bonaire, it's useful to discriminate what type. Thieves stealing tires or batteries, siphoning out your gas, or breaking into your room, are a very different story; the former can leave you stranded, the latter threaten not only property but your health & life, and neither can effectively be prevented by the simple measure of not taking valuables in your truck.

But while the specifics vary, a number of destinations have their issues. Roatan is much loved, but doesn't CocoView have armed guards (and is considered a safe resort to be at, from what I've read; I'd like to go!)? I recall reading some tips for Roatan travelers on this forum; don't hit on local women or go looking for drugs, and use 'common sense' (e.g.: there are places you don't want to be late at night, I take it?). On a forum for ex-patriates I read some alarming info. about St. Thomas; wasn't diver-related, but spooky. I've heard just enough about Jamaica over the years that I'd want to be part of a formal group to walk around off resort grounds there, most likely. And if I had a layover in mainland Honduras on my way to Roatan, I don't think I'd want to leave the airport (homicide rate's said to be quite high). Some people are scared to go to Mexico (though Cozumel, an island, seems to be considered quite safe). And I've read enough about Belize City that I wouldn't want to wander there after dark.

At least in Bonaire I can walk around town after dark, or by day, and feel safe and at ease. I can jam a couple of $20's in an otter box or similar & grab a sandwich and soda while out if I want. Instead, I take an empty soda bottle from the room, fill with water and freeze it, toss it in back of the truck and I've got drinking water for my surface intervals. So far, nobody's stolen my used plastic soda bottle and tap water.

Richard.

 

[boulderjohn]

I fully understand that the Bonaire lovers think the diving there is so absolutely outstanding that it is worth the problems with theft at the dive sites and the fact that the local government thinks it is OK, too. I get it. I just want to call BS on the claim that it is the same everywhere else in the diving world. It isn't.

If you just say the following, the argument goes away: "We think Bonaire is so wonderful that we are willing to put up with an accepted level of criminal behavior found nowhere else in the world in order to enjoy it."

 

[drrich2]

Found nowhere else in the world? I agree that this particular situation and approach to dealing with it is pretty unique, at least to the degree it exists in Bonaire, but I'm concerned that this statement...

...an accepted level of criminal behavior found nowhere else in the world...

...gives the impression (though not literally stated) that Bonaire has the highest level of criminal behavior in the world. I'm not usually a nuance Nazi, and I don't want to be paranoid about this, so please take the criticism in that light.

The petty theft from rental trucks is generally:

1.) Non-confrontational (you aren't confronted face-to-face by the criminal, unlike a mugging or home invasion).

2.) Non-violent.

3.) Minor valuables - not like a home burglary where they got your t.v., computer, the wife's jewelry collection, etc...

4.) Can be avoided by a fairly simple of set of well-known, easy-to-follow precautions.

I think the safety practices in Bonaire are particularly irksome to some because they're not what we're used to at home. For most of us, I think, you lock your doors at home when you're out (and many of us usually lock them when we're home), your car doors when you're out (and at home, if not parking in a private enclosed garage), your car may have a car alarm, your home may have a burglar alarm, and some people choose to own a gun and/or a sizable dog for perceived added security (without veering off into the gun ownership debate). Some women carry pepper spray on their persons in some public areas. Many areas have neighborhood watch programs.

It's worth remembering that some of our ordinary, everyday security measures, which we think little about, would be alarming to a stranger who'd never needed to do those things.

Richard.

P.S.: At my wife's college orientation a few years back, one of the speakers was the head of security, and he spoke about not leaving obvious valuables in view inside your car where they could trigger a smash & grab, and told students about these campus phones placed here & there where someone could call for help. When I went to college years ago, I learned you could go to a room & knock at a guys' dorm, but you didn't get past the front desk at the female dorm unless they called the room and a resident cleared you to come up. While these measures may be good things, if we assume they arose to meet a need, then how many vandals, thieves and would be rapists must there be right here at home?

 

[Hintermann]

I am going to Bonaire in May 2015 and decided not to rent a truck at all. I have booked a package with VIP Divers and their new establishment, which Bas Noij assures me will be up and running by then, will only be a few minutes walk from Blachi Koko Apartments, where I'll be staying. Bas said that my dive gear could be secured in their lockers at night and Leititia at BK said that they had upgraded their own security arrangements. I am happy with that.

I'll not take any laptop, 'land' camera or other expensive dry equipment that I will have to leave behind while out diving.

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

Richard. You are missing the point. It is not that the police aren't patrolling to stop people from stealing coolers...the problem is that they are not patrolling at all. There is zero police presence on the island. Nothing, nada. So this allows for people to steal anything they wish at any time. It devolves into worse things as we are seeing now with the armed robberies. My last trip was the first time I saw an open drug deal go down right in downtown kralendijk. You could see it happening a mile away and the people involved had no concern whatsoever of getting caught.

The lack of any police presence is a breeding ground for crime. Things worsen with time. I have no problem taking proper precautions wherever I am in the world. This is is life. one would be foolish to have vacation brain and leave themselves vulnerable. But I do like to think that there is some form of law enforcement when needed.

You mention Belize. I was in Belize eating at a small cafe once when the police came in and arrested a man for stealing a bicycle. They traced the serial number and he road the bike to the cafe. Slim chance that would happen on Bonaire. Comparing to places like Jamaica and st Thomas is kind of weak. Bonaire' sister island, Saba has zero crime. People don't lock doors. No need for a hotel room key.

Also, there are indeed home burglaries. Some have occurred while people are in their rental places while they are sleeping. This is the main reason we do not rent a stand alone house when going to Bonaire. I feel that a rental house with a white truck out front has a big bullseye on it. That stinks. Would love to rent a nice house instead of multiple different places for a group.

Bonaire is a wonderful island, but it has it's faults and issues.