Zeagle pony system. Advice anyone?

[zamboone]

Thanks for the photo. What were the results of your test?
Rob

 

[lemon]

I think I figured out how to post a picture:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/salth2owannabe/ponyclose-up.jpg
This is a photo of my 6 cu.ft. H2Odyssey set-up. I modified the bag and attached the plastic quick clips that snap into the female version on my Sherwood Avid BC. The pony sits very secure, both above and below the water, and I don't even know it is there when swimming. I positioned the button gauge so all I have to do is look down and it is easy to read (eliminating a need for another hose). I made bungies that go around the bottle so that all I have to do is pull the 2nd stage up and it deploys. I have an octo on my gear as well and the pony is strictly redundancy for me, all though it could be easily handed off if the need were to arise.

I have tested my air time with this pony, in Bonaire where this photo was taken. I wanted a redundant system for warm water dives that would easily travel. There are numerous threads on pony bottle size and as many strong opinions. The 6 cu. ft. fits my needs for what I use it for and I've tested it for that use. For cold water dives, increased depth and/or decreased visibility I increase the size of the pony. I also don't use this set-up for diving solo, I always have a partner near by. The important thing is to use what fits the dive plan and practice with it so you know it will work for you.

That's a nice looking set-up. Seems nice and compact and out of the way. What kind of air-time did you get on your pony? Did you try ascending from any particular depth?

 

[salth2owannabe]

Yes, I tested it but my intention really wasn't to record air times. I wanted to see what depth I would feel comfortable with having to do a controlled emergency ascent.( no 3 min. safety stop). In an emergency situation to where you need to transfer to a pony in a non-deco dive are you really going to hang out at 15' for 3 min? (safety stop recommended not a mandatory stop deco-That may generate some comments)
I feel comfortable with my 6 cu. ft. as a bail out bottle down to 100' (warm water, clear vis, etc.)
Most of the dives on Bonaire averaged 60'-80' max. At those depths I feel the 6 cu. ft. works great for me. If I was going to routinely dive to 100' (max) I may go with a larger pony. I think the important thing is to get, or rent, a few pony bottles and try them for yourself. That is really the only way you will know how they work for you.

 

[lemon]

Yes, I tested it but my intention really wasn't to record air times. I wanted to see what depth I would feel comfortable with having to do a controlled emergency ascent.( no 3 min. safety stop). In an emergency situation to where you need to transfer to a pony in a non-deco dive are you really going to hang out at 15' for 3 min? (safety stop recommended not a mandatory stop deco-That may generate some comments)
I feel comfortable with my 6 cu. ft. as a bail out bottle down to 100' (warm water, clear vis, etc.)
Most of the dives on Bonaire averaged 60'-80' max. At those depths I feel the 6 cu. ft. works great for me. If I was going to routinely dive to 100' (max) I may go with a larger pony. I think the important thing is to get, or rent, a few pony bottles and try them for yourself. That is really the only way you will know how they work for you.

I think it's totally reasonable to bail on the non-mandatory safety stop in no-deco diving in an emergency. Have you tried your bail-out from 100'? Just curious.

Another thing I was wondering (and this may be real controversial) is whether it would be reasonably "safe" to ascend from the deepest part of your dive more rapidly and then to slow your rate of ascent as you get shallower? Since pressure changes are substantially lower percentage-wise for any given change of depth the deeper you are, would it be terribly dangerous to ascend at a faster rate from say 100' to 70', and then slow to a more standard ascent rate from 70' feet and up? Doing something like this would minimize your time at the depths where you are using the most gas.

Of course, I recognize that this is straying from best practices. It might be a reasonable approach, however, for bailing out of a non-deco dive if you must surface from 100' with only 6cf. On the other hand, it may just get you bent. I don't know, but I would only consider such an idea in a real emergency anyways. I suspect I may get flamed for suggesting such an idea though...

 

[FritzCat66]

As for travel, what do you put the cylinder in? A pelican or something similar?

Nah, I just put it in my checked travel bag. I had to divvy up stuff anyway, since you're limited to two checked bags no more than 50 pounds each. So all my dive gear went in my dive bag except the pony and its regulators. Took the regs off the pony and put them in a big Ziplock, and got a big clear plastic bag from my dive shop for the open-ended cylinder, still in the XS nylon bag. Ended up with both my bags at about 48 pounds.

I attached a copy of the TSA webpage describing what to do with scuba cylinders, and wrote on there requesting that the TSA inspectors please put the cylinder back in the plastic bag to avoid dust and contamination. They did not put it back in the bag on the way down, but did return it to the bag on the way back. You can pretty much guarantee that carrying a cylinder means your bag will be opened and examined.

>*< Fritz

P.S. On my last dive, I ascended on my pony (since I had to empty it for travel anyway). From 40', with a 3-minute safety stop at about 18', I only used about 1000psi, or about 1/3 of my 19cf tank, i.e. about 6cf. My SAC rate is usually about 0.62, which I think is pretty average for a diver of my experience, so that should indicate a 6cf pony could get a diver like me very safely back from 40', even a little deeper if you blow your safety stop or have a better SAC rate.

Keep in mind I wasn't panicking or breathing heavy, etc. from any problem which may have forced me to switch to the pony.

 

[lemon]

Travel is part of the issue for me as well. Let me know how your tests turn out.
Rob

Well, I have my 13cf cylinder set-up now.

I tried testing it yesterday on land by just seeing how long it would take me to breathe it flat. To make it a bit more conservative, I jogged in place at a moderate pace while doing it (yes, I looked like a complete idiot while doing so inside my apartment )

Turns out, for me, it took 14 minutes to breathe it flat while doing moderate exercise at surface level. By my calculations that would equal a bit over 3 minutes of air time at 100 feet and should be enough to make a well controlled ascent to the surface in an OOA emergency. Of course, everyone's comfort level is different and ymmv, but these seems like plenty from a rec diver perspective.

I don't plan to take it on my liveaboard trip next week though as I am still not satisfied with how I would carry it. Initially, I was thinking to side mount it to my tank but since I have a small button pressure gauge that would make it impossible to monitor my pressure while ascending - which I think is important for safety on a low volume tank. Now i'm thinking of slinging it on my d-rings, but still working on the set-up, so its not ready for prime-time just yet.

BTW - does anyone know a good way to trim the excess steel length on this stage bottle metal ring clamps (as pictured below)? I was thinking of rigging them on my pony, but since it is 13cf, there is like 10inches of extra metal sticking out.

(pic is not my actual rig but similar hardware)

 

[FritzCat66]

Well, I have my 13cf cylinder set-up now... By my calculations that would equal a bit over 3 minutes of air time at 100 feet and should be enough to make a well controlled ascent to the surface in an OOA emergency.

When I was testing out ponies, I used a buddy's 13cf bottle that had been part of his rebreather rig. I know I successfully ascended on it from 70', including a standard 3-min. safety stop. So yeah, a 13cf unit should be great for us rec divers.

The main reason I went with the 19cf bottle is it's the same diameter as the 13cf and really not much bigger or heavier, and buoyancy characteristics are about the same. By the time I was ready to buy, I already knew I was going to bag it in back aside my primary tank, so the extra length wouldn't be a problem, and of course the extra 6cf capacity can't hurt.

But especially if I were looking at some sort of front mount, I would have done a 13cf bottle. It's a good size bailout for a rec diver at typical depths. Both should be able to get you back to the surface alive, biggest difference is that below about 70' the 13cf won't give you time for a safety stop (depending on your SAC of course).

>*< Fritz

 

[lemon]

Here's a pic of my set-up in its current form. I may end up ditching the akona bag and switching to the XS with the extra strap or try to get some clamp bands with d-rings to just clip it onto my BC in front.

Fritz, Are you able to get your bottle out of your bag underwater if you need to? The akona is super tight (maybe it will stretch with moisture and time) and there's no way I could get it out of its bag without taking off my BC to do so.

 

[Ursus]

I'm looking for some advice from anyone that has some experience with the Zeagle pony bottle system. I have used Zeagle bc's since I started diving. I like the "streamline" look of this system tucked on your side next to the wing. My local DM thinks it moves around to much, but he uses a 30 attached to his tank. I do not intend to use the pony to extend my bottom time, only for additional safety. It looks like they have two sizes a 6 and 20. I do not deco dive and most dives are not much deeper than 80'

Thanks for any help
Rob

I took a look at the Zeagle pony bottle (attaches by wing), the Air Buddy, and the H2Odessey. I wanted a backup in case of emergency that I could either use or if need be pass off to another diver. I ended up choosing the Odyssey for several reasons:

1) Tank holds 2x the volume of other additional air systems (6cf)...marginal size difference in tank compared to the 3cf of Zeagle
2) 1st stage and 2nd stage of regulator are integrated...I didn't want another hose...
3) Portability - small enough to pack for traveling (unlike a true pony bottle setup) and doesn't require tank inspection...unscrew regulator from bottle...pack it...reconnect and fill from any tank. No grief or fuss from dive shop or extra fees
4) It comes in a handy case that I strapped to the side of my tank by using caribeaner clips on the sleeve of the bottle to 2 D-rings that I put on my tank straps. I have it hanging upside down so that I just reach my left hand back and pull it out by bottom of wing.

Based on the above and the quality construction I am quite happy with the decision. As a matter of fact, I was playing with it in the pool last night breathing normal and went over 12 minutes with it...my SAC is average at best. Plenty of air to come up and have a safety stop.

Oh yeah - same comparable price as the other systems.

Edward

 

[fl-diver]

P.S. On my last dive, I ascended on my pony (since I had to empty it for travel anyway). From 40', with a 3-minute safety stop at about 18', I only used about 1000psi, or about 1/3 of my 19cf tank, i.e. about 6cf. My SAC rate is usually about 0.62, which I think is pretty average for a diver of my experience, so that should indicate a 6cf pony could get a diver like me very safely back from 40', even a little deeper if you blow your safety stop or have a better SAC rate.

Keep in mind I wasn't panicking or breathing heavy, etc. from any problem which may have forced me to switch to the pony.

My recent numbers match Fritz's pretty well.

I had the opportunity to utilize my H20dessey pony setup last weekend. I have the 6 cuft tank and added a hose so I can wear the 2nd stage attached to a necklace. Tank is mounted to my main tank using modified zeagle pony strap.

I was doing a 100 ft dive and my buddy ran low on air at about 60 fsw. I gave him my octo and we continued on. Looking at my own low air I decided to switch to my pony so we would still have plenty of air for a safety stop.
It was our 2nd 100 ft dive of the and I was into yellow on my Oceanic computer. (I like to come up in green when possible.)
Everything went fine and we completed our safety stop and ascent.

I was on my pony bottle from 40fsw to the surface. When I got to the boat I realized that I had nearly emptied my pony on just the short ascent. It also does not breath very well.
I am still pretty sure that I could make a no safety stop ascent from 100 fsw if necessary but i would have little or no time to deal with any issues. I spearfish and lobster dive so issues are not that uncommon.

Moral of the story, I ordered a 13cuft pony the next day and I'm getting a better 2nd stage for my pony setup.