Zeagle pony system. Advice anyone?

[lemon]

I recently assembled a pony system for use as an emergency bailout using a Luxfer 19cf cylinder and the Zeagle Razor valve/reg combo and have been very pleased with it. It makes for a very streamlined setup (note that I'm not using the Zeagle second stage, got an XS reg for that).

Zeagle will sell you a yoke fill adaptor for the Razor and they have a transfill adaptor as well so you can fill it from another tank. What they don't mention, however, is that a shop can fill the Razor tank without an adaptor at all if they happen to have a fill whip for paintball guns, which many dive shops do. Fits perfectly. Make sure the air is coming from the same system used to fill scuba tanks, but chances are that's true.

Also note that H2Odyssey uses a very similar valve/reg on their pony systems. I'm not sure who the OEM is, but both of them must come from the same place.

>*< Fritz

Great thread!

Many questions from a relatively new diver considering a pony system - HELP! (Opinions, facts, or any combination of the two will be gratefully received)

So the zeagle razor system will work on other tanks beside the zeagle 6 & 20? I need one with a removable valve for travel (I assume all tank valves are removable for inspections, right?) and preferably compact and streamlined - the zeagle system seems to fit those criteria.

I was thinking of getting a 19-30cf pony cylinder and would really prefer to side mount one. I don't want to sling because I am getting into videography and don't want to add to the clutter around my front. I don't really like the zeagle 20cf cylinder because it just looks too squat - and I may opt for a 30cf if possible.

I would prefer something thinner for less drag when side-mounted next to my main rental tank. I say rental because I dive mostly overseas. Something along the lines of the ponease set-up below on the right seems great:

That just looks more streamlined to me than the zeagle rig above. Not sure if i'm just being overly picky, but the zeagle cylinder just seems too fat - over 5" diameter for 20cf. Why make a small tank so fat - that just seems like needless drag? I was leaning more towards something like this.

Speaking of Ponease, does anyone know where to BUY a ponease? There doesn't seem to be any link on their site.

Not interested in the zeagle 6cf as it just seems too small. I want something that can get me back alive from 100-130 ft. I'm willing to sacrifice a deco safety stop in any emergency situation as long as I have enough air to do a reasonably safe and gentle ascent. I feel this is reasonable as I always try to stay well within no deco parameters.

Thanks for any advice you might be able to offer this newbie.

 

[FritzCat66]

Are you mounting your pony to your tank or to your bc?

A little of both and neither, Rob. Believe me, I tried everything before deciding on how to carry my pony: slung underarm, slung crossways, tank mounted, valve up, valve down, etc. I wanted something versatile and flexible for regular diving, as I take my pony on every dive, even a 16' shore dive.

What I finally decided on was a bag system. I only found two companies making a bag, Akona/Sherwood and XS Scuba. They're both good and similar, although I found the extra velcro "latch" on the XS felt a bit more secure, so that's what I got. Also, both make bags for 6cf, 13cf, and 19cf cylinders (what I have), but only XS makes a bag for a 30cf cylinder as well.

It has a long velcro strap that attaches around your cam band, an upper webbing strap that I use to just hang the pony off the main tank while I strap it down, and a lower strap that goes around your tank... but that one's more for stability than support, keeping the pony from knocking around. I replaced the lower webbing strap with a flexible velcro strap I found at Lowes for a quicker connect.

It takes me a few more minutes to setup with the pony, but not a significant amount of time. On most dive boats I've used the bag-mounted pony with no problem fitting in whatever tank holders they have, although sometimes I have to leave the adjacent slot open to accommodate. While it's possible to change out your tank keeping the pony attached to the BC, I've generally found it easier to remove/reattach the pony.

Every way you carry a pony has advantages and disadvantages and I highly recommend trying as many of them as possible before deciding for yourself, based on how YOU intend to use it. But for me, what the bag mount buys me is:

• "Mounts" the pony - slung just didn't work for me, since I do a lot of photography verrrry close to the reef and I found the slung ponies just get in the way too much.
  
• Doesn't require a bracket or anything on my primary tank - those systems are very nice but make it a bit more difficult to use a rented tank, e.g. when diving abroad.
  
• Keeps my pony upright - I tried valve-down, but was always worried about my valve getting knocked around and came to prefer valve-up. Come to think of it, though, I don't think there's anything about the bag that would prevent its use "upside down" in a valve-down configuration if you wanted.
  
• Keeps the pony removable - pop two velcro straps and you can extract the pony from the bag, e.g. to hand to an OOA buddy or to use for yourself if your gear became hopelessly entangled and you simply needed to get out of it and surface. Takes some practice and at first the bag was too tight, but after a few dives it loosened just enough.
  
• Makes the pony easy to carry around. The top web loop acts as a handle as well as what initially hangs the pony off your main tank while you strap it down.
  
• Cheap and effective.

So, those are my reasons, but like I said before, pony mounting is a highly ideosyncratic thing, so try out several ways first.

For BP/W users, especially Zeagle, Zeagle's own pony bags & mounts might be your best option (6cf & 20cf only). The Zeagle straps also afford most of the same advantages I mentioned above for bags.

>*< Fritz

 

[FritzCat66]

So the zeagle razor system will work on other tanks beside the zeagle 6 & 20?

Yes, you can purchase the Razor first stage/valve and use it on any standard tank. That's what I did with a standard 19cf Luxfer cylinder. You also don't have to use the Zeagle Envoy second stage that usually comes with the Razor. Up to you.

And yes, you can remove/reinstall the Razor assembly yourself. I just did that in Cozumel! Just remember, since the TSA makes you travel with the pony valve removed, technically you're supposed to get it re-viz'ed and cleaned before installing the valve again. I installed it myself in Coz but will have my LDS do a viz and clean everything, and reinstall the Razor for me for my normal diving around Florida.

>*< Fritz

 

[lemon]

Yes, you can purchase the Razor first stage/valve and use it on any standard tank. That's what I did with a standard 19cf Luxfer cylinder. You also don't have to use the Zeagle Envoy second stage that usually comes with the Razor. Up to you.

And yes, you can remove/reinstall the Razor assembly yourself. I just did that in Cozumel! Just remember, since the TSA makes you travel with the pony valve removed, technically you're supposed to get it re-viz'ed and cleaned before installing the valve again. I installed it myself in Coz but will have my LDS do a viz and clean everything, and reinstall the Razor for me for my normal diving around Florida.

>*< Fritz

That bag system you mentioned above sounds very nice - thanks for the info. As for travel, what do you put the cylinder in? A pelican or something similar?

 

[salth2owannabe]

I have a H2Odyssey 6 cu. ft. system that I use for the same situation you have mentioned. I mount mine in the bag system also but mount it slightly different then I've seen anyone carry it. If you want a photo of my system drop me a PM or an e-mail. I think my e-mail is on my profile.

 

[paulwall]

Paul,
I was thinking of the Zeagle mount that attaches to the bc in front of the wing. What do you do if your on a full dive boat with the typical side by side tank holders. Do you have to take the pony off before you place your rig in the holder?
Rob

If it's the kind of boat where you sit in front of your tank/bc do don it out of the holder, yes. It's pretty easy to attach with just a loose cam band, though.

If it's a gunwale-installed tank holder or a horizontal storage, I can leave it attached, and put the assembly in sideways.

One other thing: I added a second strap to my BC. I'm not sure if Zeagle's come with one or two straps (don't remember). Also, if you have a BC that doesn't have separate straps (Some older models used a wrap/strap thing to hold the tank), this will fit further away from your back.

 

[zamboone]

Thanks Fritz,

Great food for thought. It seems like most folks think the 6cf is too small. I wonder if anyone has done actual tests form x,y,or z depths to see how long the 6,13,19 or 30cf lasted?

Rob

 

[lemon]

Thanks Fritz,

Great food for thought. It seems like most folks think the 6cf is too small. I wonder if anyone has done actual tests form x,y,or z depths to see how long the 6,13,19 or 30cf lasted?

Rob

After doing a fair amount of research I settled on the following set-up using a 13cf pony:

I bought a 13cf sherwood aluminum tank with akona pony bag:

Aeris x1 reg:

Small Pressure Gauge:

I plan to try it out at various depths to see how it does. While 19cf would probably be more ideal in an OOA emergency at 100ft, I believe 13cf should suffice. For me, there was some trade-off as I didn't want to go bigger than 13 as I travel to dive.

 

[salth2owannabe]

I think I figured out how to post a picture:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/salth2owannabe/ponyclose-up.jpg
This is a photo of my 6 cu.ft. H2Odyssey set-up. I modified the bag and attached the plastic quick clips that snap into the female version on my Sherwood Avid BC. The pony sits very secure, both above and below the water, and I don't even know it is there when swimming. I positioned the button gauge so all I have to do is look down and it is easy to read (eliminating a need for another hose). I made bungies that go around the bottle so that all I have to do is pull the 2nd stage up and it deploys. I have an octo on my gear as well and the pony is strictly redundancy for me, all though it could be easily handed off if the need were to arise.

I have tested my air time with this pony, in Bonaire where this photo was taken. I wanted a redundant system for warm water dives that would easily travel. There are numerous threads on pony bottle size and as many strong opinions. The 6 cu. ft. fits my needs for what I use it for and I've tested it for that use. For cold water dives, increased depth and/or decreased visibility I increase the size of the pony. I also don't use this set-up for diving solo, I always have a partner near by. The important thing is to use what fits the dive plan and practice with it so you know it will work for you.

 

[zamboone]

Travel is part of the issue for me as well. Let me know how your tests turn out.
Rob