zeagle lazer vs. bp&w on a small woman (advice request)

[epsi]

Hi,

I am looking to buy my first BC and was hoping I could tap you kind folk for some sage advice.

I am a 5 foot tall woman and weight 102 lbs, so I am pretty small... pretty much everywhere (26.5 waist, 30 chest, 13 shoulder to waist).

Nearly every BC I have rented has been huge on me, except an extra small without weight integration from a brand I can't remember back in Hawaii.

I dive off either (1) a dive boat with lots of other people or (2) a sailboat with just my husband. We dive open water and wrecks and would like to do caves at some point.

I get cold easy, and we are Pacific based so my wetsuit is 7 mm and I may wear a hood plus heavy boots (7mm). We will want to do cold water as well, so dry suit is not out of the question.

Our tanks are steel...

I have discarded traditional jacket BCs with the wrap-around bladder because they are too bulky, not only to store aboard, but also in the water. I hate feeling like a sausage. I am not at all concerned about the face plant while waiting for the boat on the surface as I understand this can be prevented with correct weighting.

I am debating between a zeagle lazer (xs) and a bp&w system, possibly transpac or halcyon.

My primary concern with the lazer is the weight integration. My single good experience in a rental was when weights were not integrated. If my head points down (during descent for instance), the weights in the BC can make it slide up my torso and make the tank hit my head; the crotch strap on a bp&w system would prevent this. Also, it is much easier to carry a weight belt across the deck of a sailboat than it is to carry a loaded BC. Last but not least, I always seem to need odd weight amounts and I find it easy to distribute this on a weight belt in the water. Making changes to a weight belt in the water is just a lot easier. Weight integration means I always end up with an extra pound on one side and I find it annoying to have to deal with this lopsidedness in the water. Granted, I have only about 22 dives under my belt, so this could just be inexperience. Still...

My primary concern with bp&w is that when I dive from the sailboat I would like to put on my BC in the water. I prefer this infinitely to having to maneuver myself wearing a tank and a weight belt. I am not particularly big and without anyone to help me this is downright dangerous. Can I just toss a bp&w set-up in the water like I do a BC and then put it on, retrieving the weight belt last from the skirt? Or is the harness just too difficult to don in the water?

My secondary concern with the bp&w is comfort. What are the most comfortable systems out there?

Last, but not least, I have a final question... can one use a weight integrated BC like the lazer and use a weight belt too, ignoring the weight integration pockets?

Thanks a million for any help, Epsi

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Since you mentioned that you'll be doing cave and wreck diving, it makes sense to start off with a BP/W system. BP/Ws also work great for recreational diving.

BP/Ws have several harness options. I highly recommend starting off with the simple Hogarthian harness (composed of a single length of webbing), since it's inexpensive and quite comfortable when adjusted properly. You'll be using a crotchstrap which, in conjunction with the rest of the harness, does an amazing job at preventing the tank from sliding around on your back. You'll be surprised how "solid" the setup feels underwater.

There are several different options for positioning weight while wearing a BP/W: weightbelt, pockets attached to waist strap, pockets attached to tank cambands, weighted single tank adapter. One can also wear a separate weight harness system like the DUI Weight & Trim.

About having an odd number of weights...
First of all, you'll find that, as you gain experience, being 1 or 2 lbs. heavy really isn't a big deal at all. This means that in most cases you shouldn't need to wear an odd number of weights. But if you insist on having that odd weight, a weightbelt can help position it in your midline (back). Single tank adapters can also be weighted with an odd number of pounds. As you've learned, when carrying weights in pockets, it can be helpful to have an even number of weights so that you maintain bilateral (right-vs.-left) symmetry.

If you size the wing properly on your BP/W system, you'll be able to toss it off your boat and gear up in the water. Just remember to inflate the wing enough before you do it! I recommend you talk to Tobin (cool_hardware52) who is the owner of Deep Sea Supply. He's an expert at sizing wings properly. Tobin can also recommend an appropriately sized backplate to match your petite frame. Based on your exposure protection and tanks, I'm guessing that you'll probably end up with a wing that has 26 or 30 lbs. of lift. As a point of reference, my Halcyon Eclipse wing has 30 lbs. of lift, and this is ample lift for diving with a drysuit or 7mm wetsuit here in San Diego, CA.

To answer your final question...
Yes, you can wear a weightbelt with a weight-integrated BCD like the Lazer. In fact, it might make sense from a safety perspective to divvy up weight between the belt and the weight-integrated pockets.

Several companies make BP/W rigs. You should take a good, hard look at the offerings from Deep Sea Supply (located in Southern California). High quality stuff at a fair price. I have a Halcyon BP/W that I really like a lot. I was very impressed with Halcyon's customer service the one time I contacted the company. Oxycheq is another company that makes excellent BP/Ws. Expect to pay $350-$700 for a new BP/W package, consisting of a wing, LP inflater hose, backplate, harness + crotchstrap, small knife, tank cambands, and single tank adapter (only necessary if wing does not have camband slots). You can save a couple hundred dollars by purchasing a used BP/W setup.

Hope this info helps...

 

[TSandM]

I'm with Bubbletrubble. If you are going to do caves, you may as well get a backplate.

It is no problem at all to put a harness on in the water, if you haven't got it set up too tight. I have never tried to do it with a big weight belt, though.

As small as you are, you may also want to cross your straps, when you weave your harness. I do that (I'm 5'4", 120, but very small framed) and it keeps the straps from digging into my upper arms.

Tobin makes a small pattern backplate that would probably fit you very well.

 

[wader]

EPSI,
I have a Deep Sea Supply BP/W that would fit you. The wing is 26 lbs and the plate is sized small. I bought it for my but she didn't want it. Only one dive on it. Let me know if you are interested and i will give you more details.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Hi epsi,

I can't comment on the specific Zeagle BC, but here is what I can tell you based on my own experience. (In fact, one of my first posts here was a very similar request.)

I'm not small, but I'm very short waisted, so I am like a small when it comes to BC's The vest BC's I rented flopped all over, made me feel like the Michelin Tire Woman, and the shoulders sat up around my ears if I had the cummerbund in place. I did not know about Zeagle at the time, so they may have some great choices for women that I can't comment on; but I did try on eight or so various other brand size small or extra-small women's BCs at dive shops. They too, fit like the ones I had rented. Ugh.

I went to a backplate and wing and I love it. Fits well, does NOT ride up, no Michelinry under my arms or in front - so I feel like a fish, not a blob. I do not don my rig in the water, but due to a bout of quadriceps tendinitis I have been doffing it in the water (boat dives) and handing it up. This is no problem for me. I did don (and doff) in OW class and that went fine, but that's the only time I have donned in the water.

Like was mentioned, be sure your wing can support your rig floating by itself (a good reason to carry [some] weight on a belt and not on your rig straps). I wear a separate weight belt, and even with "no" torso to speak of, it's not a problem for me. It's a slight pain (for me) when getting into the rig while sitting on a boat bench -- I like the rear weight belt strap outside the crotch strap for doffing before I re-board the boat. Not insurmountable though.

Another plus, if you are aboard a sailboat, is that I find the bp/w is much easier/faster to dry than some "regular" BCs (my dive buddy has a Zeagle Stiletto, and it does not dry as quickly, although he is very happy with it). Takes less water to rinse, too, and it's more compact than many non-bp/w BCs, for storage (always a plus aboard!)

I have a DSS small sized backplate, and I love it. In fact, I think I may have tried to buy the exact one the previous poster mentioned that he has for sale, but at the time the seller (not this person; the previous owner) changed his mind about selling and I needed to get one right then for a trip. As it turned out, a smaller wing was better for what I was doing anyway (warm water diving), so I bought a new one from Tobin and it all worked out.

I only had about 4 dives when I first rented a backplate and wing; I bought my own after 17 (basically just after that trip where I rented for dives 5-17). To each their own, but I couldn't be happier.

On the padding: Again, this is just me, but I went with the plain webbing straps and no padding. Even on dives where I only wore a dive skin, I felt no discomfort.

Blue Sparkle