Z-system gas switching

[Kevrumbo]

Back to topic:

Hi everyone. I am still getting used to my Z-plus system with isolatable manifold, I am tech certified (on backmount) but plan on doing many more 2-tank air sidemount dives before planning to do any multiple-gas dives on the Z-system.

My question for you Z-sidemounters, especially with a isolatable manifold incorporated into your system, how do you switch gasses mid-dive? (Mainly in the sense of "back gas" switch to deco gas) Do you keep a traditional stage setup on your high-O2 deco bottle with a first and second stage, and switch normally? Or do you unplug left side, plug in deco gas, and simulaneaously turn on deco tank\turn off right side tank, and then breathe it off your long hose? I have been putting a lot of thought into gas switching, and I can see many different ways of doing it using the zsystem.

I am wondering, because in my purchasing of the Z-system, I was told that you could input ANY gas into the system, and still be breathing off long hose\backup. But then comes the extra vigilance and keeping up which gas is plugged in and you are breathing off of. Thanks for any input you can give, even if you are just using a Z-distribution block.

(Here in Chuuk Lagoon from 05 to 16Oct and again now 17 to 29Nov)

I've just been switching to deco gas bottles with conventional regs the usual way --been diving backmount doubles for the deeper wrecks beyond 45m with 50% & O2 in the AM; and Z-system doubles sidemount with O2 deco for afternoon dives on wrecks 30m or less in the PM after a 3hr surface interval.

I did bring an extra QC6 hose kit, but only plan on using it as a spare set for bottom mix in case of a cut hose. . .

Another note/comment when doing two bottle deco on technical Z-sidemount:
I'm clipping the two AL40 deco bottles, one on each side for better balance --and using the PADI DSAT mnemonic to keep track of them: "Right side Rich" for Oxygen bottle, and "Left side Lean" for Eanx50


Still breathing using separate conventional dedicated individual regs for the deco bottles and NOT plugging in via QC6 into distribution block.

Good to see ya posting here again Richard (rjack321) --you keep on telling me your opinion from over ten thousand miles across the Pacific what you think my reality & experience is here on Z-system & a mixed team diving the wrecks of Truk Lagoon; and your rhetoric of the economic worth of spending money on such a system . . .(Everything is fine I'm having fun regardless of your misgivings). . .

P.S> It's Thurs 22Nov here in Chuuk: An Early Happy Thanksgiving to Y'all!

 

[decompression]

My deco set up is identical, simple and works.

small point.....not quite $1700........
UTD Z-Trim Double Tank System Complete (Cave/Tech Side-Mount)


[37-BC-ZTC-SQ6] $1,399.95

 

[TSandM]

Is UTD really teaching "right rich, left lean"?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I like AG as well, however I also know him well enough to realize he's never been a sidemount cave diver. I might just have more sidemount cave dives than he does and I'm not trying to create something "unified" while glossing over some pretty fundemental differences all for the sake of the not so urgent need to always breathing a long hose.

Nobody is breathing OC deco bottles or stages with long hoses - amazingly we survive.
Nobody puts long hoses on their OC bailout on CCRs or SCRs - again, doesn't seem to be a problem.
Feathering left and right valves to switch SM tanks and using switch blocks for gas switches prevents me as a buddy for verifying what you're breathing based on the reg in your mouth.

Creating a real problem while trying to solve 2 non-existent ones is false economy. And as you point out very expensive $$ too.

You're preaching to the choir.

---------- Post added November 22nd, 2012 at 12:05 PM ----------

Is UTD really teaching "right rich, left lean"?

That's how rumors get started. He was pretty clear he was using the PADI/DSAT memonic of right-rich, left-lean.

Personally I think that's a train wreck waiting to happen as way back in the day I was taught the first deco gas goes on the "right" and the O2 is what's "left", which is of course exactly opposite to righ-rich, left lean.

---------- Post added November 22nd, 2012 at 12:10 PM ----------

small point.....not quite $1700........
UTD Z-Trim Double Tank System Complete (Cave/Tech Side-Mount)


[37-BC-ZTC-SQ6] $1,399.95

The Z-trim system is $1,399, but the Z-plus is $1,499.

*But* despite the misleading nature of the title, if you scroll to the bottom you'll see in both cases the Isolator distribution block is a $179 upgrade over and above those prices, and the travel cam bands are another $60.

So if you want a travel system and not have to mess with hose clamps and you want the isolator, it's a $1,600 to $1,700 system, not $1,400.

 

[decompression]

Ouch, pricey....

---------- Post added November 22nd, 2012 at 10:52 AM ----------

Is UTD really teaching "right rich, left lean"?

Hey Lynne, that's right out of the PADI tec sidemount instructor guide. And it's what I've been diving for a majority of my sidemount dives. I still feel like a newbie for UTD sidemount, I think after another hundred or so more dives ill be confident in that system. I haven't done a tec SM crossover so I'm curious to see if there is a different protocol. What's your choice? Thanks!

 

[Kevrumbo]

Is UTD really teaching "right rich, left lean"?

Of course not Lynne. . . UTD has you manipulating deco tanks as needed before switching to deco gas with the bottle hanging clipped off your left side as per usual -whether you're plugging in QC6 or using conventional dedicated deco regulators.

I prefer to keep it simple and just switch to the appropriate deco gas either left side 50%, or right side 100% (although when I switch to Oxygen from the bottle clipped off to my right side, the regulator feed is not around my neck and with a big hose loop out in front).

[It's 8am 23Nov here in Chuuk, and I'm eating breakfast. Going 60m deep to the engine room of Aikoku Maru around 10am:
http://www.petemesley.com/truklagoonwrecksAIKOKU.htm ]

 

[Mitchell Teeters]

What part of diving SM do you find a task load? I'm not here to rip you, just figure out where you think the problem is with your current configuration (whatever that is, so provide some background or a link to this earlier discussion please)

I was asking about using the z block manifold to minimize dealing with switching tanks and keeping my setup as much like a back set up (7' primary, etc.). No big deal.





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[DA Aquamaster]

Hey Lynne, that's right out of the PADI tec sidemount instructor guide. And it's what I've been diving for a majority of my sidemount dives. I still feel like a newbie for UTD sidemount, I think after another hundred or so more dives ill be confident in that system. I haven't done a tec SM crossover so I'm curious to see if there is a different protocol. What's your choice? Thanks!

I think we're still in the process of tempting Lynn to sidemount diving. But I predict it's in her future!

On a two deco gas dive, or with a travel gas and a deco gas, I will carry tanks on each side, but I will rotate them to the left side before I use them.

The disclaimer here though is that I cave dive and do very little wreck diving anymore, so the the O2 bottle gets left in the Cavern. In most cases then that means starting with the travel gas on the left side with the O2 just being carried on the right until the drop in the cavern. Then, coming back out of the cave into the cavern on the travel or first deco gas, I'll switch to back gas while I stow the first deco or travel gas and move it to the right side before picking up the O2, clipping it on the left and switching to it.

When diving stages with a deco and travel gas or two deco gasses, I keep the bottom mix tank top clipped over the primary tanks while the travel and/or deco mix(es) is(are) always bottom clipped. I do that because it's just easier to check the contents labels if the tanks are bottom clipped below the primary tanks.

I also mark stages and deco bottles with small MOD markings on the tank just below the break for the shoulder where I can readily see them when the tank is bottom clipped.

To be real honest though, on a 4 or 5 bottle trimix dive on a deep wreck offshore, I'm going to be really tempted to carry the travel gas/first deco gas on the right side (bottom clipped) with the O2 bottom clipped on the left side, with the stage top clipped on the left side - and not move anything to breathe it.

 

[rebelrph]

I adapted the Z-system to my Ranger bp/w. I am the only SM in a sea of BM buddies, so the set up works well for me. I have isolatable distribution block/manifold, but also bungee a 40" hose and 2nd stage to each first stage for redundant redundancy for emergency use. If something REALLY bad happens, unplug the QC6 and breathe from the emergency reg. YES, I know then I basically have the original SM set up, but the key is using a system that works for your style of diving. There is no ONE SYSTEM.

 

[JamesK]

I adapted the Z-system to my Ranger bp/w. I am the only SM in a sea of BM buddies, so the set up works well for me. I have isolatable distribution block/manifold, but also bungee a 40" hose and 2nd stage to each first stage for redundant redundancy for emergency use. If something REALLY bad happens, unplug the QC6 and breathe from the emergency reg. YES, I know then I basically have the original SM set up, but the key is using a system that works for your style of diving. There is no ONE SYSTEM.

*Disclaimer-This is a curious response and not a flame or sarcastic response.

What does this style of diving give you? What advantage do you see by adding it to your setup? If diving standard side mount, would you still have additional second stages on each tank? How does adding more to your setup make it advantageous and safer then just sticking with a standard side mount or standard z system setup? Any other thoughts you can add would be appreciated.