Your thoughts on PLBs

[String]

(read on at your own risk; this is just my opinion)

it may not be the diver's fault, but it's ALWAYS the diver's responsiblity
to get back on the boat. it's my job as a diver to get back on the boat,
not the operators'.

Not always. Maybe in areas where the boat will anchor yes but in other places where conditions arent as benign - windy, swell, current, tides and so on its normal practice for the boat to never anchor and divers are picked up by the boat coming to their marker buoy.

Its the divers responsibility to have and deploy a suitable marker boy BUT that also relies on the skill of the boat crew of being in a position to see it and come to you. For a variety of reasons this isnt always the case.

Sometimes the boat is waiting for you when you surface, sometimes the boat takes 5-10 mins to get to you if he's picking up/dropping off other dives, occasionally 15-20 mins if someone else has a problem. Generally more than 30 mins you can assume he hasnt seen you so should be looking. After an hour if he hasnt found me then id trigger a PLB.

 

[nazgul810]

I voted no because I would be more likely to invest my money into something that I would be more likely to utilize. Like Andy said

using a PLB sounds to me like a "quick fix" sort of thing, a gadget-dependent solution to a problem that is best addressed by the diver's attitude, state of mind, skill set, and self-awareness.

 

[RonFrank]

I would wait about an hour before I gave up on the dive boat.

If you do start a search for no good reason the penalties are quiet stiff...ask the Ohio guy. A canoe trip through the Adarondacs,(spelling?) it got very cold and started to snow, the river froze over and snow was up to his thighs so he activated his PLB and they got him. Thing was he had a tent, food and the means to start a fire, some say he did the right thing others said no his life was not in danger. A week later he went back to get his gear and got lost so he activated his PLB again :11: . He is due in court and faces $25000 fine pay the cost of two searches and imprisonment.

In most states (definately Colorado) when one purchases a hunthing or fishing license, there is a very small fee associated with it that covers search and rescue.

Tip, if you plan on doing remote backpacking or other activities in CO GET A Fishing license, even if you have a moral issue with fishing and hunting. That $20 license can save you $50,000+ in rescue costs if you get lost.

As for imprisonment, why? What did he do that was illegal? I would assume that the fine is to cover SAR expenses which I can understand, but jail time for getting lost?

Actually on land and sea (not for diving however) the BEST thing one can get to avoid getting lost is a GPS. My Garmin ran under $200, and is a GREAT tool for everthing from navigating in unknown cities to hiking in the wilderness.

Another thought I had is what about radios? We use them when we hunt, heck I used mine with my family at DisneyLand Seems like it would be an inexpensive alternative to give each diver a radio in a waterproof container, and if you surface, and can not see the boat, radio that you are in the water, and out of site....

Sure seems like a inexpensive solution to what could be a HUGE lawsuite if a Diver get's left behind.

Ron

Ron

 

[Scubaroo]

Scenarios where a diver might find themself in need of a PLB through no fault of their own:

1. Boat screws up the head count and leaves without you (now THAT would never happen, would it )
2. Another diver needs to be evacuated with divers still in the water, and the boat leaves without you. There's a well known boat based in Monterey, CA with this policy - it's been debated to death elsewhere on the board.
3. Boat takes off without you because of adverse weather (happened to a Singapore diver in '04, reported on TDS). Spent an hour drifting at sea before he was picked up.
4. Boat sinks! Again, happened in '04 in SE Asia, another boat in vicinity was able to pick up divers.
5. Unable to return to the boat for whatever reason - assisting injured diver and you drift off in the current, unexpected strong currents at depth seperating you from the boat, you get blown off the anchor line during a safety stop in a ripping current, drift dive gone wrong - eg boat breaks down and is unable to pickup divers... whatever.

Any of these situations could happen to a diver with the right attitude, state of mind and self-awareness. Again I bring up the case of Dan Grenier lost in Fiji in Aug '04 - from all accounts he was an incredibly accomplished & experienced diver, yet was still lost at sea along with another diver on a drift dive.

 

[cdiver2]

(read on at your own risk; this is just my opinion)

it may not be the diver's fault, but it's ALWAYS the diver's responsiblity


it's their job to try and find me if i don't make it back, but they get that job only because i've failed to do mine.

a PLB is just no substitute for good diving practices, situational awareness,
underwater navigation skills, people skills, and plain old common sense.

i must add, however, that if worse comes to worse, yeah, it'd be nice to
have a PLB as a final line of defense.

using a PLB sounds to me like a "quick fix" sort of thing, a gadget-dependent
solution to a problem that is best addressed by the diver's attitude, state of
mind, skill set, and self-awareness.

ok, sermon over

POST # 3
One of my uncomfortable situations was. Diving in the Gulf on a ledge, my wife and I were the first ones down when we got back to where we thought the anchor should be...no anchor. So we went a little further along the ledge (North) thinking we had not got there yet...still no anchor so we surfaced very slow keeping the ledge in sight as long as we could but no safety stop. When we hit the surface we saw the boat a dot on the horizon I could just make out there was someone on the top of the fly bridge. We gave the distress signal and were lucky he saw us right away. We later found out it had taken some time to get the next pair into the water and when they did they surfaced and reported there was no ledge and the anchor was dragging across a flat sand sea bed.

So in your opinion after the above scene it was still my responsibility to get back to the boat right.

*it's their job to try and find me if i don't make it back, but they get that job only because i've failed to do mine.*

Now where did I fail to do my job?.


*it's my job as a diver to get back on the boat,
not the operators'.*

BUT it is the boats job to be where they said they will be.

 

[H2Andy]

Now where did I fail to do my job?

you mean you don't check for yourself on the status of the anchor
once you get to the bottom and before setting off for the dive?

i don't take for granted that it is secure.

now, granted, most of the places we dive are wrecks, so the anchor
is secured to the wreck and it's easy to check...

 

[H2Andy]

Scenarios where a diver might find themself in need of a PLB through no fault of their own:

1. Boat screws up the head count and leaves without you (now THAT would never happen, would it )

I wouldn't dive off a boat that uses a head count as the sole safety
procedure.

2. Another diver needs to be evacuated with divers still in the water, and the boat leaves without you. There's a well known boat based in Monterey, CA with this policy - it's been debated to death elsewhere on the board.

I wouldn't dive with a boat that did this. You do NOT put additional
people at risk in order to help one victim.


3. Boat takes off without you because of adverse weather (happened to a Singapore diver in '04, reported on TDS).

I wouldn't dive on marginal weather that could make this possible.


4. Boat sinks! Again, happened in '04 in SE Asia, another boat in vicinity was able to pick up divers.

Now, I admit, this would be a very good reason to have the device.
But, the boat should have one, bigger, and with more range, so mine
would be unecessary. If the boat don't have it, I don't dive with them.


5. Unable to return to the boat for whatever reason - assisting injured diver and you drift off in the current, unexpected strong currents at depth seperating you from the boat, you get blown off the anchor line during a safety stop in a ripping current, drift dive gone wrong - eg boat breaks down and is unable to pickup divers... whatever.

Again, it's this sort of "you never know what might happen" that is best
addressed with skill and know-how rather than a gadget.

as i said in my earlier post, i don't object to the device as a last-ditch
safety measure. what i obejct to is thinking that you can rely on the
gadget and forego the responsibility that you as a diver must take for
your own safety.

 

[String]

Still forgetting the fact that in a lot of the world where conditions arent as benign boats dont anchor so you arent expected (and often it'd be impossible) to get back to the boat.
PLB for diving in these areas can only be a good thing.

 

[H2Andy]

Still forgetting the fact that in a lot of the world where conditions arent as benign boats dont anchor so you arent expected (and often it'd be impossible) to get back to the boat.
PLB for diving in these areas can only be a good thing.

i studiously avoided your post because you're right

 

[Derek S]

a PLB is just no substitute for good diving practices, situational awareness, underwater navigation skills, people skills, and plain old common sense.

Agreed.

Sad thing is, if the movie Open Water had never been made, would we all be having this conversation right now? I mean, statistically, you've got a much better chance of being struck by lightning while diving rather than being "left behind" by a dive boat, right?

*Edit - that being said, I also agree with String, so.....

If I were an avid diver of far off, remote locales where a PLB would be an almost "must have", I would buy one. Considering I am a cold-water, muck diving fool 99% of the time, I can think of 1,000 things I'd rather spend the money on.