Your thoughts about a UW HD Video Rig!

[ronscuba]

Grand Cayman, can't wait to see the video's I wanna do the Cayman's sometime this year. Where did you stay at?......
.........

Option 1: Sony HC9, Gates Housing, Water Alarm, White Balance Option, WP25 Port, Light Adapters, Sunray 1000, Pelican 1560 case.

Option 2: Sony SR-12, Sunray 1000, Pelican Case, Housing (Blue Fin Pro, Seatool, Amphibico, Nimar) still not sure about the housing, Wide Angle Lens.

..... Any thoughts?

It was a quick trip. Only did 1 dive and the stingray city snorkel. We stayed at Grandview condominiums. Nice place. I'd stay there again. I should have a video up on Vimeo this weekend, but it won't be a dedicated dive video. More of a vacation video with some UW footage thrown in at the end.

I like option 1, because I'm a Gate's guy. If they made a housing for the SR12, I'd get that. If you go Gates, also get the flat port for macro shooting. The port only costs $150.

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

It was a quick trip. Only did 1 dive and the stingray city snorkel. We stayed at Grandview condominiums. Nice place. I'd stay there again. I should have a video up on Vimeo this weekend, but it won't be a dedicated dive video. More of a vacation video with some UW footage thrown in at the end.

I like option 1, because I'm a Gate's guy. If they made a housing for the SR12, I'd get that. If you go Gates, also get the flat port for macro shooting. The port only costs $150.

So you think the SR-12 would be a better choice over the HC-9? And yeah, wonder why Gates dosen't have a housing for the SR-12? Maybe they are waiting for the HDR-XR, and just bypassing the SR-11/SR-12. I was just checking out that seatool with monitor back for the SR-12. Not bad, only weighs 3 lbs, can access every function in the camera vie the touch screen. Only down fall, is a plastic housing.

Maybe I should email, Gates and see if they have any intention for making a housing for the SR-12 or the HDR-XR

Ehhh? Are you seriously thinking that you jump into the water and turn on the camcorder, then turn it off when you get back on the boat? That isn't how it goes. The camcorder spends most of your time in the water on "standby", you see a great shot you flip it "on", then after the shot "off". On a typical 60 minute dive I might get 8-10 minutes of footage. On a day when I do 4 dives, I use 1 whole tape for the day, changing the tape at night, shooting some topside footage also each day. I have to change the battery before I have to change the tape!

robin

Well considering I get anywhere from 40 to 90 minutes per dive. I would think with some static, pans, and crane shots I would be looking at 10 - 12 minutes of video alone. That isn't including any macro of the marine life. So I would estimate 18 - 20 minutes of video per dive. Which is probably conservative. And throw in a shot or two of my buddies spear fishing.

My whole idea of playing it safe, is the less I have to open that housing near water, the better off I am. With the SR-12 and the extended sony 100 battery, I am good for 240 minutes without opening the housing. The only thing I would be dependent on then is run time on the video lights. But I hear so many conflicting stories about the quality differences between the SR-12 and the HC-9. The SR-12 seems to have better low light capabilities, but I think the HC-9 HDV tapes will offer a slight edge on video quality. Not really to sure, not to many HC-9 or SR-12 owners that have chimed in to give me the realistic truth. I even tried going to best buy yesterday to test drive the camera's, but they don't have anything. They are gearing up for the new models, which aren't released till March 8th. And I just don't see the housing companies blowing out housings for the HDR-XR series. Can't really blame them, they change models every year, its almost impossible to keep up with the camera's. And with the so called universal housings you give up access to some controls for convenience and adaptability.

Its just not an easy process, thats for sure, especially when your spending this kind of money! You want to make sure you do it right.

 

[TaiHei]

This may be a longshot, but if you are serious about Gates, and have the time and money, I think I remember about a liveaboard trip coming up soon to the dry tortugas where some Gates housings are available for rent. You can check out not only the HC7/9 but also the larger Professional models. Opportunity to ask questions and find out if you would be happy with tape.
I can see your point about opening up the housings, part of the formula for flooding is damaging O-rings, and getting dirt where they seal. It pays to not get distracted and not get in a hurry.
No matter what you choose, there is bound to be a downside, it is just a matter of what is most important.
Anything over 20 min of footage in one dive sounds like a lot to me, but will leave that to those who have more experience than I. I have made a few two dive sets without opening my housing.That gives you 30 min of footage per dive.
I would have to say the majority of video rigs (including professional) out there are tape, and are very capable

Start recording before splashing and stop recording when back on the boat reminds me of my first housing (electronic). When the controls shorted out, I was so desperate to get something, I started recording, and then sealed up the housing. Reversed procedure after the dive. This made editing very monotonous. The beginning and end were hilarious!

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

This maybe a really stupid question, or point. Depends on how you look at it.

As some of you may know, most of the underwater video shops are running a special. If you purchase the Gates FX7 housing with the Super wide 120 degree port for $ 7,955.00 they give you a Sony HDR-FX7 for nothing. So for $7,960 you get housing, camera and super wide 120 degree port. Now for the same set-up for an HC-9 (which is only a 70 degree port) I would pay $ 4,111.00.

Now from the reviews I understand the FX-7 is in the lower end of the HDR-FX1 and HVR-V1U family. The reviews were ok, not great. But you would have to think the FX-7 has to be better then the HC-9. I understand the learning curve is going to be more difficult. But I am getting a better quality camera, and a 50 degree wider port. And I am sure that port is better then the one gates sells for the HC-9.

So is this something I should be looking at? I am not sure, but it seems like its a good deal. But then again, it may be just a play for them to get rid of the FX-7's since they are discontinued.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[bottomfeeder22]

So you think the SR-12 would be a better choice over the HC-9? And yeah, wonder why Gates dosen't have a housing for the SR-12? Maybe they are waiting for the HDR-XR, and just bypassing the SR-11/SR-12. I was just checking out that seatool with monitor back for the SR-12. Not bad, only weighs 3 lbs, can access every function in the camera vie the touch screen. Only down fall, is a plastic housing.

Maybe I should email, Gates and see if they have any intention for making a housing for the SR-12 or the HDR-XR



Well considering I get anywhere from 40 to 90 minutes per dive. I would think with some static, pans, and crane shots I would be looking at 10 - 12 minutes of video alone. That isn't including any macro of the marine life. So I would estimate 18 - 20 minutes of video per dive. Which is probably conservative. And throw in a shot or two of my buddies spear fishing.

My whole idea of playing it safe, is the less I have to open that housing near water, the better off I am. With the SR-12 and the extended sony 100 battery, I am good for 240 minutes without opening the housing. The only thing I would be dependent on then is run time on the video lights. But I hear so many conflicting stories about the quality differences between the SR-12 and the HC-9. The SR-12 seems to have better low light capabilities, but I think the HC-9 HDV tapes will offer a slight edge on video quality. Not really to sure, not to many HC-9 or SR-12 owners that have chimed in to give me the realistic truth. I even tried going to best buy yesterday to test drive the camera's, but they don't have anything. They are gearing up for the new models, which aren't released till March 8th. And I just don't see the housing companies blowing out housings for the HDR-XR series. Can't really blame them, they change models every year, its almost impossible to keep up with the camera's. And with the so called universal housings you give up access to some controls for convenience and adaptability.

Its just not an easy process, thats for sure, especially when your spending this kind of money! You want to make sure you do it right.

Keep in mind your battery life, not just tape length! I just returned from a trip with my SR12/Ikelite setup, filming 2 dives in the AM, and 2 more in the PM. I did have to crack open my case at lunch to change the battery, the 60 and 70 series batteries will last about two -1 hour dives (on standby when not shooting). You reference the 100 series battery - just make sure that the housing will accomodate the extra space that the battery sticks out - mine will not. The -70 battery is a good improvement over the -60, though.

FWIW, I didn't have any fogging issues although I had to change my battery outside in the elements. I'd heard reports and concerns of such and wanted to share my experience. However, it was relatively cool(for the Keys) - about 66 - 75 degrees.

I'm about to post a dive on the Spiegel, made with my SR12 and Ike. That should give you a little bit of insight as you make your choice (I struggled for about a year before making my decision). Remember, to see HD, you have to go to the vimeo site, not just view the embed. Good luck!

 

[diversteve]

Any thoughts on this?

Just to point out the obvious, Ron shoots an FX7...

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

Just to point out the obvious, Ron shoots an FX7...

Yeah, we talked about that.

That whole free fx7 thing is really that great of a deal. It just tells me they cant sell there 120 degree wide angle because they want $3,000 for it. Just another fancy marketing idea for we need to sell housings and ports.


I have heard so many people tell me to get the best camera you can afford. Just get the camera and housing, and you can always pick up a wide port, lights, etc at a later date, and a little at a time. So I pondered on that for a little while. I already have one HID video light, so at least I can just by one more, its only the UK light but its cheap and it will work for now. So with that in mind, I have decided to throw in another camera into the mix. But I stepped it a few notches, and I am now beginning to lean more towards this new camera. In fact I am pretty sure I am going to go this route (for the tenth time ). I spoke with a few people over the phone, checked all the reviews, and its all pointing in the right direction.

Here is my order of choice:

1. Sony HVR-V1U with the Amphibico Endeavor housing.

2. Sony HC-9 with either Light & Motion Blue Fin housing or the Amphibico EVO housing.

3. Sony SR-12 with either Light & Motion Blue Fin housing or the Amphibico EVO housing.

My reason for upgrading the camera. Well the housing for all three cameras all run in the same general price range, give or take a few hundred dollars. The only big difference is the cost of the camera. Well as we all know, you get what you pay for. Yeah sure the HC-9 and the SR-12 will get the job done. But this is an investment for underwater video, with that in mind I believe the HVR-V1U will hold a little more value, and will allow me to trade it off or sell it in the future. Which with the SR-12 and HC-9 may or may not be possible in the future. I understand the learning curve is going to be a lot longer with this pro-consumer camera, but I think in the end I will be a lot happier with the results. I would have went with the Gates housing for it, but the accessories are just to expensive. External monitor and wide angle port over $5,000.00. The other housing come with the monitor and those prices included the standard port, and there wide ports aren't nearly as expensive.

I would like to hear your thoughts about the HVR-V1U? I think I will start looking for a retailer in the next few weeks. I will be down south for 9 days, so it will have to wait till then.

 

[ronscuba]

I assume you know the differences between the V1U and the FX7, and you have reasons for choosing the V1U over the FX7 ?

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

I assume you know the differences between the V1U and the FX7, and you have reasons for choosing the V1U over the FX7 ?

From amcorderinfo.com

"The Sony HVR-V1U is the Professional version of the Consumer HDR-FX7 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $2599). In essence, this means that these camcorders share their core imaging specs and are built around the same compact chassis. Both camcorders feature three ¼ ClearVID CMOS sensors and a 20x Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T*, F1.6 2.8, 62mm filter diameter lens. At first glance, the camcorders seem similar. However, the V1U adds XLR terminals and a black exterior that makes the medium grey color of the FX7 appear less serious. Yet to fully grasp the myriad upgrades that differentiate the $4800 V1U from the $3600 FX7, you have got to lift up the hood. The enhancements that will get potential buyers of the V1U in the door are probably the progressive scan (24p and 30p) and XLR terminals features which are must-haves for many DPs and producers. Yet for the connoisseur, the V1U menu presents a host of delicacies that you wont find on the FX7 shorter menu. Many options are expanded in the V1U: white balance gains additional presets; Cinematone Gamma adds another option; Smooth Slow Record gains 3 and 12 second options and the list goes on.

More significantly, the V1U gains some desirable features that are not offered at all on the FX7. Camera profiles can be shared via MemoryStick and emailed to distant colleagues; multiple framing guides and view options are offered (4:3, 13:9, 14:9, and 16:9, 80% and 90% safety zones, and All Scan Mode). Along with two XLR terminals, the V1U adds independent level control over each channel, noise reduction, trim, and wind cut, while numerous Time Code settings allow both syncing with other V1Us (via i.Link) and various preset, user bit, and format options. We like the HDR-FX7, but the HDR-V1U is a much more capable camcorder. Various microprocessor-based options available on the V1U are not available on the FX7 and in all likelihood, enabling them wouldnt have cost Sony a penny. In other words, short of the addition of XLR inputs and onboard audio mixing, the truncated option list on the FX7 seems implemented to widen the chasm separating these camcorders and justify their price points. We rather shoot with the $4800 HDR-V1U, based primarily on its expanded audio options and progressive scan abilities, but neither camcorder is a match for the sub-$4000 Canon XH A1 DONT MIND THE PRICES THERE OLD"

I know thats a lot of mumbo-jumbo, but all the reviews I am reading listening to what some of the pro's are using, puts the V1U up on top. Do you think there isn't enough difference to warrant the extra money. It's only a $1,000 more then the FX-7, and its $300 less then the FX1000. So it seems to give the most bang for the buck. I know the learning curve is going to be there. But I am looking at it this way, when my skills get better, I will have a few more options available with the V1U.

I know, Ron, it's addictive. I jumped from the HC-9 and SR-12 hot pan, right into the V1U fire . But I like what Mike at H2O said, "If you can afford it, learn on something that offers more", well something along those lines. And I know the progressive frame rates are going to give my insane quality.

Do you think the V1U is a wrong choice?

 

[ronscuba]

IMHO, the V1U does not offer any advantage underwater over the FX7. The advantages are topside, primarily the XLR audio and progressive scan. If that matters to you then go for the V1U.

Just remember the increase in size/weight of these bigger systems. BTW, I'm buying an Ikelite HV10 housing for casual less serious diving/video. All the topside footage in my Grand Cayman video was shot with an HV10.