Your personal evolution in diving, and an etiquette question

[Kharon]

I understand what you are saying. I definitely don’t think everyone has to learn to do it my way. I think there is a happy medium (that you’ve found) that this divemaster missed. Unfortunately, when I’d try to hover for a bit to look at something interesting, the DM was moving so fast that it was very difficult to ever catch back up. We’d swim right past a huge coral head without even taking the time to circle it and see what was on the other side, for example. I probably should’ve been a little more clear. The DM was too fast for all three of us. The third guy was probably more your style of diving, which would’ve been fine with us, really.

With just three divers, though, and two of the three of us wanting to thoroughly look around, only having the opportunity to do so on 2-3 out of 19 dives just seems crazy to me.

I understand what you are saying, though, and wanting the group to spend the whole dive on one coral head is going to be unreasonable. Hopefully the next trip we can find a happy medium.

I understand better - Sorry for the missunderstanding. It seems as if the group was united but the DM had his own agenda. If the DM was sailing along too fast on the first dive I would have indicated my displeasure and involved the group at the first surface interval. After the second dive, if the DM was doing the same, I would have made it very clear that if he wanted a tip he would do what the group wanted, and if he didn't conform to the group's desires the Dive Op would be informed. Having to do 16-17 dives the way the DM wanted and not the way the group wanted is totally unacceptable. I ran into that at Coco VIew. Another story.

 

[dianna912]

I am having a little trouble understanding the tone of this post. I thought this thread has been remarkably restrained. Just because some may have a different opinion does not mean they are being disrespectful to the OP or you. It was the OP who inquired about the etiquette of diving in a recreational environment and suggested she knew a better way:

"Anyways, all this to say: is it selfish to insist on my style of diving and hope that maybe, like us, the other diver will learn from it?"

So, sometimes I like fast and sometimes I like slow and just about anytime I'm underwater I'm having fun. And I don't think anyone has advocated an"Olympic level swim meet".

I think people are getting caught up on my wording on this, and I apologize for the way it came across. The point I was trying to make was this: we once got caught up in a very slow group, and actually learned a lot from them. If the dive master had insisted on catering to us and our style back then, the macro photographers in the group would have been miserable and would have probably seen a whole lot of nothing. We were outnumbered, and thankfully the divemaster catered to the slowest divers. Finding ourselves in a similar situation, where there were two of us (who wanted to go slow) and only one other diver, is it okay for us to expect the same courtesy of taking it slow and easy? I heard when we first started that the DM should always tailor the dive to the slowest diver, but I rarely see that in action. I didn’t feel confident enough to REALLY push the issue because I didn’t want the third guy to feel uncomfortable, but the DM knew. He’d make comments about it up too.

I’m glad to know it is acceptable for us to just hang back if that’s what we choose. The whole group doesn’t have to cater to us that way, if we are in a bigger group, so I will make that clear from here on out. I’ll tell the divemaster, there is a good chance we will fall behind and I will NOT fight to catch back up with you.

The thing that confounds me, is this DM was a bit frustrated about not seeing the Tapestry shrimp. He was a good 50 Meters in front of me, though, and I didn’t know what it was, just that it was a super cool looking polka dot shrimp. I wasn’t going to make him swim all the way back to look. With him knowing that I am a very good spotter, and that I was getting pics of stuff he’d never seen before, I just wish he’d have slowed it down so I could share stuff with him and the other diver. Then again, who knows, maybe I’d have never made it to that perfect hole with that shrimp if we hadn’t been moving.

 

[dianna912]

I understand better - Sorry for the missunderstanding. It seems as if the group was united but the DM had his own agenda. If the DM was sailing along too fast on the first dive I would have indicated my displeasure and involved the group at the first surface interval. After the second dive, if the DM was doing the same, I would have made it very clear that if he wanted a tip he would do what the group wanted, and if he didn't conform to the group's desires the Dive Op would be informed. Having to do 16-17 dives the way the DM wanted and not the way the group wanted is totally unacceptable. I ran into that at Coco VIew. Another story.

It’s my fault. I was unclear. The third diver was more of a “go with the flow” sort of guy and since he was the DM’s buddy he stuck with him, of course. I was actually surprised halfway through when he surfaced and talked about being very over exerted. I also hadn’t realized that he and the DM were buddy breathing. (They were too far ahead of us on each dive for us to notice.) I don’t think he necessarily wanted to go our pace, but we all needed it to be slower.

 

[Darnold9999]

Just got back from Indonesia diving at Lembeh and R4. Two highlights. Spending 20 minutes with a mimic octopus who was hunting for lunch and then decided to dig a new burrow. Completely unconcerned with the two divers hovering overhead. The second was on a ridge when an oceanic manta decided to take several passes over us - visiting each diver along the ridge - was actually concerned for a second or two that she was going to swim right into me but once she got as close as she wanted to be she just raised a wing and went on up the ridge.

In the Octopus dive my guide was just as fascinated as I was. Private guide on that particular dive so no issues.

With the manta there were a gaggle of divers from multiple boats/resorts in the area. Thankfully no idiots determined to get close by chasing her - something I have seen far too often. Everyone just hung out where they were and she made several passes.

Diving slowly, becoming part of the background scenery allows the local life to figure out that you are not a threat and you will see a whole different set of behaviors than if you behave like a large clumsy predator dashing about.

 

[dianna912]

Just got back from Indonesia diving at Lembeh and R4. Two highlights. Spending 20 minutes with a mimic octopus who was hunting for lunch and then decided to dig a new burrow. Completely unconcerned with the two divers hovering overhead. The second was on a ridge when an oceanic manta decided to take several passes over us - visiting each diver along the ridge - was actually concerned for a second or two that she was going to swim right into me but once she got as close as she wanted to be she just raised a wing and went on up the ridge.

In the Octopus dive my guide was just as fascinated as I was. Private guide on that particular dive so no issues.

With the manta there were a gaggle of divers from multiple boats/resorts in the area. Thankfully no idiots determined to get close by chasing her - something I have seen far too often. Everyone just hung out where they were and she made several passes.

Diving slowly, becoming part of the background scenery allows the local life to figure out that you are not a threat and you will see a whole different set of behaviors than if you behave like a large clumsy predator dashing about.

Yes! And that sounds amazing!! We had a fun little octopus on our dive. Not that cool, but we did see him punch a fish. Unfortunately, the DM only let us stay there for 3-4 minutes watching it. I’ve never seen such an active octopus.

 

[scubadada]

@dianna912

You are correct, it was very easy to misinterpret your initial post, and some of those that followed. If nothing else, it should be clear that you need to remain flexible in your dive plan, depending on the environment and the other divers. You are lucky when you can control your own dive.

The fish were shadowing the octopus while it hunted, hoping that it would stir up something for them, very common. Extremely common with Sharptail eels in the Caribbean.

 

[dianna912]

@dianna912

You are correct, it was very easy to misinterpret your initial post, and some of those that followed. If nothing else, it should be clear that you need to remain flexible in your dive plan, depending on the environment and the other divers. You are lucky when you can control your own dive.

The fish were shadowing the octopus while it hunted, hoping that it would stir up something for them, very common.

I keep trying to upload this directly but I can’t get it to work. This was my favorite part.

 

[markmud]

You are correct, it was very easy to misinterpret your initial post, and some of those that followed.

Hi scubadada,

I thought @dianna912 posts were straightforward. Seemed clear to me.

I think the point of this whole thread was/is:
DMs work for us, communicate with them so a workable compromise can be devised so that all can either be happy, or happy that their wishes were given serious consideration.

However, I am prejudiced. I have been in her shoes after paying thousands of dollars to go and explore someplace new, only to be treated as though I were the one receiving the gift.

Some facets of the vacation dive industry need a serious overhaul. To iterate: I thank God for @cardzard and @ROXANNE. The best diving trips we have had are because they get it, they understand.

Our most memorable dive trips have been where the dive-op catered to us, not the other way around. Moorea and Manzanillo were the worst.

dive on,
m

 

[scubadada]

Hi @markmud

I'm very glad you had a good time at the SB Surge in Curacao, a very, very easy place to dive. DMs or guides do not dive for you, they dive for the entire group. The well being of the entire group easily overrides the desires of a single or buddy team of divers. On easy dives, it is almost always possible to dive as an independent diver or buddy team. In more challenging environments. it may be required that you dive as a group. Try diving in the Red Sea, Cocos, Galapagos, you will get what I mean. Sorry, I get this demand as very prima donnaish.

 

[scubadada]

@markmud

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