You have GOT TO BE KIDDING!- New Aqualung BC

[Jeff Toorish]

Personally, I will reserve judgement until I see one of these in person...or more specifically, until I dive with one.

For context, I remember a friend of mine, a Master Craftsman photographer, who proclaimed that digital photography was a "fad" and that photographers shouldn't throw away their film cameras.

I don't know if this is a good idea or a flop, I do know that most innovations involve two things, skeptics and refinements.

Jeff

 

[Diver Dennis]

As my original post indicated. The COPY of the ad "... simply and intuitively control their ascent and descent by pulling a lever up and down to surface or dive deeper." speaks to adding air to ascend which is not the way to properly ascend. A proper ascent is done by swimming up while dumping air as it expands. Adding air to 'surface' is a recipe for a runaway ascent.

Otter, do you really think divers are not bright enough to understand ascents and NOT adding air to go up? I could understand someone who has not been diving reading the ads and believing that but get real. If you have taught your students properly they will understand.

My second point was specifically about the entanglement hazard afforded by a lever.

Have you seen this BC? The knife on the side would be just as much of an entanglement hazard, would it not? In fact it looks even more exposed than the lever.

Others may have their own opinion about other features and as for jumping on the bandwagon, your post on the recall of a "H" inflator certainly appeared to be consistent with that characterization.

Quite the opposite in fact. My point was that if there was a problem and it did not work, as I said, they would have to recall it like Halcyon did. How is this jumping on the bandwagon? Don't you think Aqualung saw that Halcyon had to recall those inflators? Do you think they did not learn from that mistake that cost Halcyon a lot of money? Do you think they would put out a product that had not been tested to the point they were satisfied the same thing would not happen to them?

As for having tried one, no I have not...and will not. Speaking as an Instructor diving in the waters of Southern California where kelp is 'abundant', I wouldn't take the risk nor ask my students to....and I certainly would reemphasize that adding air to a BCD is for establishing positive buoyancy on the surface and neutral buoyancy underwater. As we say "no elevator rides to the surface".

"I have not...and will not"? Are you that closed minded? So basically you are saying anything that may be hanging off of a BC, like a reel, is an entanglement hazard? How about a snorkel or a console? What about the knife? You think using this product id so risky that you would not try it?
"No elevator rides to the surface" applies to regular hose inflators as well. Again, a diver should be smart enough to get by the up/down wording to understand what the company means.

To be 100% clear, my views on this are strictly my own and do not represent those of ScubaBoard. YMMV.

You know, I would not have brought this up unless you had first but I see you read the report I made on your post. I did this in private but you had to bring it out onto the board. Frankly, with all that has been going on lately, I would think that there would be an air of caution among the Moderators here regarding posts. "Bashing" has been a popular word here on SB the last week or two. Your post, bashing this BC without trying it or even seeing it for yourself is irresponsible in my opinion. Moderators are perceived to speak for the board. You said nothing about his post being your own opinion until I brought it up. As I said in my report, if I was a new diver coming here to find out about BCs and saw that a Moderator here was bashing it, I would listen. I have been reading that Moderators are supposed to do just that, moderate, not ridicule something without concrete facts. You failed to take off the Mod hat in your first post and would not have if I had not reported your post. You can't have it both ways...

 

[ams511]

I saw this thing in peron at a dive show, it was shown next to the Apex Status. Aside from the coolness factor I dont see any advantage to it. Personally I think it is something that they can upsell to naive newbies. I don't think anyone experienced would ever buy either product.

 

[rakkis]

In a perfect world, every instructor does a good job. This is not a perfect world.

I don't understand why a lot of users on SB are under the impression that SB is representative of the divers out there. We are the few, the proud, the geeky. I've often had to deal with divers that were poorly trained; both as students (post initial certification) and as dive buddies.

I believe Otter is refering to the countless disaster divers every other thread here complains about. Additionally, you have to understand that a lot of non divers (i.e. resort coursers) read these ads in magazines. And armed with what they read in ads like this and 30 minutes of "instruction" go out and risk hurting themselves.

Our shared concern is not with the inherent safety of the BCD. If properly trained, a new diver can deal with any specific piece of gear. It is with the notion that "if you want to ascend, you add air". I fully expect a diver with 1000's of dives to understand the limitations of using that feature to tweak buoyancy and the proper way to use it. However, a new diver that hasn't even mastered his buoyancy is only going to hurt himself by adding air to his BCD to make an ascent.

The short monologue I posted earlier was not make believe. It happened to me when I was with a student trained elsewhere during her AOW night dive. (Which by the way I wasn't responsible for.. I was just helping my friend cover his class that night since he had an emergency.) After speaking with her later, I was told nobody ever told her not to press the inflator button to make ascents. Did I believe her? Not really. Either way, I had her do a scuba review with me a couple days later to "make her comfortable with her new gear". She was very uncomfortable and completely without control of her own body underwater. We did about 3 hours in the pool and 2 hours in the classroom. She REALLY needed help understanding basic concepts that she should have learned in OW. I coupled her with a paying student for the review and the shop did not charge her. Unfortunately this is a common problem. I try to fulfill my duty as an instructor by bringing people up to speed from bad training. But it's a harder battle if advertisers are going to fill students' heads with inflating to ascend.

You are free to call me biased, but I've seen first hand how something like the text in those ads can be detrimental to students. I'm sure it's a decent BCD. I just don't agree with the way AL has chosen to market it. They should know better.

 

[Splitlip]

Hmmm. Not so hard to understand. Up is pulling the lever up toward your head or put another way, if you are standing on the floor, pull up to go up. Down toward your feet or if you are standing on the floor, down toward the floor. This does not change, even if you are upside down.

So up means inflate then?
When I swim up and the gas in my wing expands and I find I need to vent my BC.
Am I doing it wrong?
Truely, I am trying to understand this. When the lever goes up and gas goes into the BC you lift and gas expands. You then need to vent the gas you just pumped in plus the expanded benign gas, right?
Now if I swim down, the buoyancy gas in my wing compresses. I then need to add gas. Does the lever go up or down? Up right? But I was going down.
Using this like an elevator lever down would exhaust gas(right). You then quickly need to replace the gas just vented then add more gas to compensate for compression. Lever up?
Is it realy just a remote deflater like the Mares products?
Like I said. It is the "elevator" thing I have a problem with, plus that video clip.
When BC's first came to my hood, people called them divers' elevators. We all figured out pretty quickly you don't use them to change depth.
Maybe I am over complicating it. Maybe Seaquest did something I am not seeing.

 

[Diver Dennis]

The best thing to do is look at the website. No wonder it sounds complicated with all the erroneous information here. Basically the up and down is controlling your buoyancy at depth, nothing more.

How many people here have actually gone to the site and read the information there? It does sound confusing if taken out of context.

 

[loosebits]

My major problems with things like this and Dacor's version is that I don't know how to use it. If I need to inflate someones BC for them, I don't want to be digging around to figure out which level, button or knob I need to use. I want to see a corrugated hose coming off their left shoulder with a button on the end just like almost every BC on the market.

I'm not opposed to progress however I don't see how this is actually and improvement and adding such a toy just so you have something to market at the cost of safety is just plain stupid.

 

[Mike Veitch]

I don't think anyone experienced would ever buy either product.

I do protest....

i soooooooo want a left pocket inflator with no corrugated hose, they just get in the way and for me personally are totally useless....

Doesn't have to be this one, but my next BC will definitely have one, even if i have to change brands from my beloved scubapro BC.

 

[Diver Dennis]

In a perfect world, every instructor does a good job. This is not a perfect world.

I don't understand why a lot of users on SB are under the impression that SB is representative of the divers out there. We are the few, the proud, the geeky. I've often had to deal with divers that were poorly trained; both as students (post initial certification) and as dive buddies.

I believe Otter is refering to the countless disaster divers every other thread here complains about. Additionally, you have to understand that a lot of non divers (i.e. resort coursers) read these ads in magazines. And armed with what they read in ads like this and 30 minutes of "instruction" go out and risk hurting themselves.

Our shared concern is not with the inherent safety of the BCD. If properly trained, a new diver can deal with any specific piece of gear. It is with the notion that "if you want to ascend, you add air". I fully expect a diver with 1000's of dives to understand the limitations of using that feature to tweak buoyancy and the proper way to use it. However, a new diver that hasn't even mastered his buoyancy is only going to hurt himself by adding air to his BCD to make an ascent.

I'm sure it's a decent BCD. I just don't agree with the way AL has chosen to market it. They should know better.

I dive with different diver almost all the time. I see a good cross section of what's out there. If a diver can operate and understand their computers, they will not screw this up.

Well resort coursers do not buy new gear to take on their holiday. They use the dive shop gear. I have never seen someone who has never been diving or taken a course with their own gear. There may be one out there but I have not seen him.

If you go to the website or go to a dive shop, believe me, it's hard not to understand. Have you read any literature or seen the website?

 

[Diver Dennis]

My major problems with things like this and Dacor's version is that I don't know how to use it. If I need to inflate someones BC for them, I don't want to be digging around to figure out which level, button or knob I need to use. I want to see a corrugated hose coming off their left shoulder with a button on the end just like almost every BC on the market.

I'm not opposed to progress however I don't see how this is actually and improvement and adding such a toy just so you have something to market at the cost of safety is just plain stupid.

Should this not be covered in your buddy check? There should be no safety issue as far as it's operation unless you are not their buddy and are coming in to help during some type of incident.