YMCA Cert. Card & Advanced Open Water Class

[agroupgergirl]

I have two questions really and would appreciate an honest answer to each from those in the dive master/teaching industry.

First, are they going to start treating the C-cards from anyone who obtained them from YMCA like they have some of the aluminum scuba tanks in the US? In other words, you tell me now you will accept my YMCA card, but in a few years - even though I have 18 yrs of diving experience - are you going to disregard this card all together? I ask because here in the US if you have scuba tanks made before a certain yr, they no longer allow you to use them even though they have been visualed every year and hydroed every five years - basically, there is nothing wrong with the tank, but the shops will not fill them anymore - I do not want this same scenario for my C-card. If this is the case and I will not be able to go to other countries and dive, then I will probably have to take some kind of advanced course to at least get some kind of recognized scuba organization card. I would do this if I just had to.

Second, what really is the advantage to taking an Advanced Open Water Course? In reading materials on the web, my diving experience, and the type of recreational diving I do, I really see no advantage whatsoever in taking this course as I already do most of what is contained within the course. Mostly, I want to spend my time diving on vacation, not doing classwork or having to concentrate on some type of instruction. Basically, I don't want to go to school while on vacation. And, yes, I know you are not actually in the classroom. I do not know if I can do all the required dives in only one actual dive, however.

Any input e-mailed or posted would be much appreciated. I ask these questions because a dive master in Grand Turk last year 1) laughed at my 1995 YMCA C-card (I don't blame him - ha) and 2) actually said something about them not being accepted everywhere (I think he was joking here but you never know). Again, thanks for any and all input.

Sincerely,

A Grouper Girl

 

[rhwestfall]

Hmmmm, my YMCA card is from 1988. Never was a cause for a problem. I did get a AOW card a few years later, but that was more opportunity than need. I too was afraid of being denied diving.... but I always dove off my own boat, so it was my rules.....

Just for the fun of it, if I am asked for a card, I usually show the relic YMCA card........

IMHO - The best way to approach this is to seek out an instructor who will provide a class of value (not a card mill) and get the AOW card in a challenging and learning environment.....

I will say, if your YMCA program was like mine, it pretty much covered the OW, AOW, and a portion rescue (practically a MSD) under many agencies' current standards. There is, however, some changes from when you were certified that are beneficial to know.

 

[boulderjohn]

Your YMCA card should be honored as long as you can produce it. The only exception would be individual operators with individual policies--similar to your analogy to the aluminum tanks. There is no universal rule about disallowing all aluminum tanks prior to a certain year, but some individual operators do have such a rule.

As for AOW, it is certainly possible for a diver who has a basic OW card to do tons of diving with the right people and learn the equivalent of all sorts of advanced certifications without being credited with those certifications, just as it is possible for someone to learn the equivalent of a Ph.D in mathematics through self study. If you have the skills and knowledge and don't need the card, then don't get it.

On the other hand, there are places where some evidence of advanced certification is required. If you want to dive those places and just have an OW card, it doesn't matter how skilled you are, you won't be doing the dive. That is almost always because of issues related to liability--they want some concrete rule that does not include individual judgment that indicates the diver has more than initial diving knowledge and skills. If you want to do those dives, you need the certification.

 

[agroupgergirl]

My husband and I usually dive off our own boat or a friend's boat, so I learned with two experienced divers in the Gulf who learned to dive well before I did and well before any certification was required. So boat diving out of our own boat is mostly what I've done so yeah, my rules or the captain's rules any way.

I have an opportunity to get the AOW so I will probably just suck it up and do it - probably the easy way. Course work here and diving in GT.

It did pretty much cover the OW, AOW and a tiny bit of rescue. I did not take the resort course and had private instruction because I was so hinky about diving to start with. I was just determined I was going to learn before our honeymoon and I did. One of the BEST decisions I've ever made!

Thanks for the input, it was helpful - especially since you got yours in '88.

---------- Post added April 18th, 2013 at 02:51 PM ----------

I can produce it - it pretty much stays in my wallett and amazingly has not received all that much damage. Interesting that there is no universal rule about that. We just hear it all the time, I think we have tanks that date back to some time in the late 80s. My guess is that it most likely has to do with the air compressors: 1) not damaging the air compressor itself because I cannot imagine how much that would cost and 2) not damaging the human being operating the air compressor - that one I can imagine how much it would cost.

Agreed and Touche! I really dislike any kind of course work, just because I'm lazy and stubborn.

I am also worried about that. Most of the places we've been out of country are resorts and I have not had much of a problem, but in the future if I want to go somewhere that requires more, I do want to be able to do that and working in the legal industry as a sec/para, I definitely understand the liability aspect. Based on yours and rhwestfall's response, I will probably suck it up and do the course.

Thank you, your response was very helpful.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I can issue you an SEI card if you'd want one. We are the agency that was formed when the Y shut down theirs. I'd have told that DM he's full of it and would not want to dive with an operation that was dumb enough to not recognize a YMCA card. Would make me wonder what other deficiencies they have.

You can also tell them that your YMCA card technically certs you to 100 feet. There are more than few SEI instructors on the Gulf Coast that would teach an AOW that would not be one of the BS sample a few dives courses. Call SEI HQ in Muncie Indiana and ask them for a referral to one. And BTW the SEI courses are now known as Advanced Level 1, 2, 3 and 4 to more closely coincide with our CMAS courses.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I took my YMCA OW2 course in Pensacola, FL.
As you mentioned, it covered Advanced dive planning, gas consumption calculations, navigation.

I later took the PADI Advanced Course for reasons similar to the concerns you expressed.

PADI AOW covered Navigation along with some other material and skills. Dive planning and gas calculations were not among them.

In my experience, AOW was below the YMCA OW2. I figured I would cover the bases and take AOW anyway.
There are probably operators out there that only speak PADI, and that is what they want to see. I have ran into divers and have even heard Dive Masters that think there is no diving world outside of PADI, so I figured eventually I would run into an operation that thought only PADI existed.

I wanted to see what the PADI AOW class was all about anyway. so I took it with some friends.

It never hurts to have the AOW card, but I would get in touch with Jim about that SEI card.

The YMCA program became SEI.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[agroupgergirl]

Thanks - I think the guy was honestly joking because he had not seen one in so long. He was from Canada so I know they know YMCA. It just made me wonder how long they will in fact do this. Everyone says they'll honor it and then years later they take it back - at least it's been my experience in life that things are that way.

I think I am going to go ahead and take the PADI course (mostly because that's the organization my husband uses). I do really appreciate your response. I am interested in getting that card. Would you go ahead and send me the info. First time on the forum so I'm not really sure how you e-mail that to me. Thanks again.

---------- Post added April 19th, 2013 at 10:23 AM ----------

Thanks for the helpful advice, Mitch. I am going to go ahead and take that course because I don't want to run into a problem with that. I have asked jim for the card info. The only part I'm worried about is navigation - couldn't find my way out of a brown paper bag w/a compass - land marks yes, compass no. Plus, it's been 18 yrs since I took the course. won't hurt to refresh that part of the brain.

We dive primarily out of Destin so I am familiar with the area you learned in. Glad I learned there and, as you know, there is not much in 60 ft of water out there. It was pretty in June last year w/70 ft vis and that was great and the shovel nose we caught were mmm-mmm good! Hope diving in Japan has been good. Can't wait until we have time to go to Pacific.

 

[kelemvor]

Nice to see that SEI is supporting YMCA cardholders better than SSI is supporting NASDS cardholders. One of my dive buddies has an NASDS card that's older than I am. To my knowledge he's never been turned away from a fill or a dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

Nice to see that SEI is supporting YMCA cardholders better than SSI is supporting NASDS cardholders. One of my dive buddies has an NASDS card that's older than I am. To my knowledge he's never been turned away from a fill or a dive.

That's surprising, especially considering that the owner of SSI is the former owner of NASDS. On the other hand, having sat through a week-long marketing seminar given by him, I probably shouldn't be so surprised.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

PM Sent with info for replacement card.