Yet another wing size thread...

[cool_hardware52]

Hmmm... Okay, I dive dry, so I don't know what to say about weighting issues like that. What do you do if you accidentally pop up from 10 fsw though and need to get down at the end of the dive?

Swim back down, you are only a few lbs positive, and you quickly get neutral

I did take off 5 lbs from the example given going from 22 lbs + AL80 to 17 lbs + E8-130.

The thread starter here is using 22 lbs total and an al 80. Your diver is using 17lbs on the belt, 5 lbs of SS Back Plate, a 1 lbs can light + an E-8. Looks to me like the 5 lbs you took off the belt to compensate for the E-8 vs Al 80 went back on with the BP.

Generally, I don't like plans that involve ditching weight, though, even a little bit of it. Of course if you're down there with a compressed wetsuit and a tear in the wing, bent is better than drowned. With a functioning wing, though, I'd think the better plan would be to have the wing get you out of any forseeable trouble without ditching.

No disagreement here. If your wing is working use it.

Could happen even to an experienced diver with a sudden downwelling, tsunami, or other random occurance of luck running out...

Sure could, but if you aren't overweighted you can still get positive, or atleast neutral.

I think its all arguable.

Good, I enjoy these discussions.

Regards,


Tobin

 

[lamont]

Swim back down, you are only a few lbs positive, and you quickly get neutral

good point.

The thread starter here is using 22 lbs total and an al 80. Your diver is using 17lbs on the belt, 5 lbs of SS Back Plate, a 1 lbs can light + an E-8. Looks to me like the 5 lbs you took off the belt to compensate for the E-8 vs Al 80 went back on with the BP.

I wasn't including that in the 27# though. I didn't know if he was being complete or not and really had 22# + steel backplate + can light or not right now, so I threw that out as other things to consider for total weight... I wasn't very clear about that, but that's what the question marks were for...

Sure could, but if you aren't overweighted you can still get positive, or atleast neutral.

Yeah, clearly being overweighted is the bigger issue if its present.

I think my point, though, was that to size the wing you should sort out all the overweighting issues and get yourself squared away -- then assume you lost all your wetsuit buoyancy and see if you can get positive. Clearly you shouldn't try to compensate for being overweighted by increasing your wing size...

I'd also mention that I've done a bunch of dumb weighting things with my rig (like swapping out an LP104 for an AL80 without changing my weightbelt around) and having a few lbs extra lift makes mistakes like that a little more forgiving, particularly when you're just learning...

 

[SangP]

I'm finally going to do it, I'm buying my first backplate and wings. I've used the search button, but hoped that some of could offer some advice on my specific situation. I've decided on a Halcyon Eclipse MC. I thought I wanted a 40 lb wing... but after making a trip to a semi-local Halcyon dealer, I'm not so sure - the shop owner told me that a 30 lb should be "plenty" for me. I'm about 5'7 and somewhere in the range of 150 lbs. Diving in New England, I tend to wear a 6.5mm farmer john and while diving an AL80, I need about 22 lbs of lead. Not having my own tanks, I want to be able to dive any steel single I might reasonably run into. I realize that 30 lbs lift would probably be sufficient most of the time, but it's the thick wetsuit at depth (compression) that concerns me. Also, I wonder about being on the surface in rough conditions with a larger steel tank. The decision is made more difficult by the seemingly small difference in physical size between the two wings. Would a 40 lb wing be detrimental, as far as trim and safety? Or is the 30 clearly the better choice for me?


Thanks in advance,

Anthony

Hi Anth,

Although I can understand your reasoning for getting a 40 instead of a 30, rough conditions with a larger steel tank etc, I would ask why are you diving in such conditions in the first place?

Secondly, you should always be carrying along a safety sausage and that gives you additional lift and a in the case there is a tear in the wing you could use the sausage, so you don't see the need a any more lift in your bc.

Cheers,

SangP

 

[cool_hardware52]

I've done a bunch of dumb weighting things with my rig

Haven't we all

I would agree that a little more margin for "dumb weighting things" can be a real benefit, and the ability to help others, hold weights etc has merit.


Regards,



Tobin

 

[theskull]

Hi Anth,

Although I can understand your reasoning for getting a 40 instead of a 30, rough conditions with a larger steel tank etc, I would ask why are you diving in such conditions in the first place?. . .

Why NOT dive in those conditions if you're comfortable with it? I sure do. The conditions improve greatly underwater, and that's where we're headed.

theskull

Lift is good. "More power!"

 

[SangP]

Why NOT dive in those conditions if you're comfortable with it? I sure do. The conditions improve greatly underwater, and that's where we're headed.

theskull

Lift is good. "More power!"

Let's see why...

Getting seasick on the way to the site, getting sick on the surface b4 the dive, getting away from your buddy when he/she hurls underwater!!!, getting sick on the surface after the dive, getting SICK on the way back! CLEANING up after the dive!

Realising that maybe it wasn't such a good idea in the first place LOL!

SangP

Back to the subject of lift, I don't intend to dive in a drysuit anytime soon or at all so 30 is more than enuff for 3-5 mm wetsuit, al tank. Btw, is it possible to pump some air into the dry suit for added buoyancy?

 

[anth]

Let's see why...

Getting seasick on the way to the site, getting sick on the surface b4 the dive, getting away from your buddy when he/she hurls underwater!!!, getting sick on the surface after the dive, getting SICK on the way back! CLEANING up after the dive!

Realising that maybe it wasn't such a good idea in the first place LOL!

SangP

Been there, done that!! My first dive trip, a few years ago when I was 16... My father and I were on a boat dive in the Keys, It was a rather rough day to say the least. We both vomited topside, but felt a lot better. We both descended, and upon descent on vomited again - surge got the better of us. It was a great father-son bonding experience to say the least, and I proved that vomiting through a reg works.


Anyway, I never thought that my question would generate so many posts. All of the replies are greatly appreciated.


DSAO,

Anthony

 

[SangP]

Hi Anth,

Father and son bonding is fine under such conditions, getting my girl to dive after a situation like this... that's another thing altogether.

Seriously, what other courses are you thinking of taking cus that may affect the gear you buy now.

Another thing is how often you will be diving under certain conditions that need only X amount of lift cus it's alway nice to have additional lift but realistically, get the gear for the dives you'll be doing 90% of the time and a little extra like additional lift devices for when something goes bad. Otherwise you might as well get 70 wing.

Personally I like my Halcyon rig but if it weren't for the DIR course I would have gotten the Hammerhead instead, Tobin's and FredT stuff is really super but the SS plate is just to heavy for my kind of travel/diving trips and I don't want plastic plates.

Btw, have you thought of diving anywhere else that does not require a dry suit? If so, a 30 is perfect.

SangP

 

[jagfish]

Personally I like my Halcyon rig but if it weren't for the DIR course I would have gotten the Hammerhead instead,

Hi Sang P, I've never seen the rig, what is it about the Hammerhead that would not be acceptable in the DIR course?

JAG

 

[SangP]

There's nothing that the Hammerhead has that isn't dir acceptable, the problem or rather the more convenient option is to get a Halcyon as the shop that I'll be doing the DIR course with sells Halcyon only.

Should anything be damaged to either the plate or wing I have the option of seeking help and attention. That and the fact that I rather not hear a 'I told you so' should something go pear shape and I can't swap it with the fellers LOL.

My decison to maybe get a Hammerhead plate with an Oxycheq wing setup for my girl is that she isn't a local and getting some dive gear in Japan is really too expensive!

jagfish, your location shows japan so I figure you know how high the prices are there and I don't need to explain how much higher.

Anyway, Hammerhead/Oxycheq is a cheaper alternative and if it weren't for the fact that they aren't sold locally I rather save a bit and get the Hammerhead.

SangP