Yelled at for MOF

[gypsyjim]

Now you're meddling!

You say that like it is a BAD thing!?

 

[Wookie]

With bacon, and a couple other delicacies, that can be stretched to the 5 minute rule, as long as you do not have a dog...

There is no floor limit on bacon. Unless the floor is dirt.

 

[gypsyjim]

There is no floor limit on bacon. Unless the floor is dirt.

Which kind of dirt? This is bacon, and it can be dusted off.

 

[Bierstadt]

I hate to steer away from bacon back to the OP, but that story is the type of BS that makes me hesitate to take classes. I recently dove with a group that included an instructor from our LDS as DM. He heard me doing my buddy check and telling my buddy my primary was my donate (DIR setup). He then told me that was not the way they taught it and that my donate was the wrong color and asked me to use my necklaced backup for the dive. I said my buddy and I had dived together before and we would be fine, which my buddy agreed with. The DM backed off. I would have been happy to say no if he had insisted, as happily he was not my instructor.

I have no interest in in being a lemming in the herd. Care, thought, and research go into my setup and how I dive. If someone wants me to do something different, they better be putting at least as much thought into it as I did. And of course they don't. It's just institutionalized BS. I hope when I get to tec classes that will go away. If I just did what the instructors I have had told me to I'd be doing it wrong, as far as I am concerned. Example: 55' dive, only the "Deep Diver" student was supposed to do a "free ascent." Which apparently meant not using the anchor line. What kind of certified scuba diver worth his or her C-card cannot hold a safety stop in no current!? How can this be an "advanced skill?" That requires a class to learn? Ugh.

Is there a point where instructors stop the BS and teach like their students are not 12?

 

[Wookie]

Which kind of dirt? This is bacon, and it can be dusted off.

I'm thinking that oily dirt under the shadetree. That's kinda yucky.

 

[CrumhornDiver]

That instructor's behavior is crazy. MOF as a sign of distress was something I was told but never something I bought into. MOF making a mask more likely to fall off, I've seen.

I trained in a shop that meticulously kept track of its gear, especially masks. I was told masks disappeared a 3x the rate of all other gear COMBINED (including weights). Additionally, I have seen student knock their own masks off their head, causing an instructor to try to retrieve it because he had to account for them to the shop. That can be dangerous, and it's just a mask.

If an instructor wants to condition his or her students to not put MOF to avoid losses, I accept that premise and also think it prudent under that premise to practice that in the pool. However, if a student wants to put a deposit down up front on a mask in case they lose it or more realistically someone has their own mask, then it's a non-issue.

If as an instructor I taught MOF = distress (which I would not), in the situation described, I would have asked my students what they noticed about stuartv across the pool. If they said MOF, I would ask, what does that mean? If they said distress, I would ask, does that diver seem to be in distress? I would hope they would say no or at least that they weren't sure. Then I might point out that different divers have different training so as with most things in life, use your judgment before overreacting.

I think stuartv acted very reasonably once confronted. Even if you don't believe MOF is at all a problem, when confronted, why rock the boat in a place you are unfamiliar and a person with whom you are unfamiliar? If you want to press the issue, I think most professionals would agree that a discussion out of the pool outside of the students' view or earshot would have been appropriate.

I would agree with most of the opinions expressed here, but I suspect most people on SB have views that were shaped by experiences and knowledge transfer rather than fully formed at birth. Were I an instructor that was potentially misleading or providing incorrect information to my students, I would not want to be corrected or debated in front of my students. It will undermine me for the rest of the course. This assumes that my misleading/incorrect information is not endangering myself or others, which this MOF likely is not.

It sounds like stuartv did speak to the instructor outside the pool after to clear up the issue, which I think was the best way to handle the situation. Too many times, I think people try to stand their ground when it's unnecessary. I'll save my energy to debate things that really matter.

 

[RayfromTX]

I hate to steer away from bacon back to the OP, but that story is the type of BS that makes me hesitate to take classes. I recently dove with a group that included an instructor from our LDS as DM. He heard me doing my buddy check and telling my buddy my primary was my donate (DIR setup). He then told me that was not the way they taught it and that my donate was the wrong color and asked me to use my necklaced backup for the dive. I said my buddy and I had dived together before and we would be fine, which my buddy agreed with. The DM backed off. I would have been happy to say no if he had insisted, as happily he was not my instructor.

I have no interest in in being a lemming in the herd. Care, thought, and research go into my setup and how I dive. If someone wants me to do something different, they better be putting at least as much thought into it as I did. And of course they don't. It's just institutionalized BS. I hope when I get to tec classes that will go away. If I just did what the instructors I have had told me to I'd be doing it wrong, as far as I am concerned. Example: 55' dive, only the "Deep Diver" student was supposed to do a "free ascent." Which apparently meant not using the anchor line. What kind of certified scuba diver worth his or her C-card cannot hold a safety stop in no current!? How can this be an "advanced skill?" That requires a class to learn? Ugh.

Is there a point where instructors stop the BS and teach like their students are not 12?

When it comes to instructors, choose wisely. The life you save could be theirs.

 

[DIY]

I put my mask on my forehead all the time, I just like the attention

 

[gypsyjim]

At this point I have done training with: the Y, PADI, GUE and SDI.
I have learned valuable lessons from each class, from each organization, from every Instructor, and found things that I have adopted as my own, and things I have not.

I truly value the effect of mixing up my training agencies, as it quickly exposes the Koolade drinkers from the thinkers.

 

[TMHeimer]

Stuart,I knew there was a point I wanted to make way back and figured it out. So the instructor booked the local pool and you and your buddy joined in. You mentioned the instructor said he was "in charge" of the pool. You mentioned there were also a lot of swimmers and coaches there (sounds like the pool we used to use). Was the instructor just "in charge" of the deep end, or the divers? You paid $25 entry fee (our local public one is $4 Canadian). Anyway, what sort of responsibility did the instructor have legally for you two? That may change things. If not, I figure you were not in either of his courses so your MOF was none of his business since you weren't putting anyone else in danger.
Funny how some subjects generate a lot of posts quickly. Some of my favourites besides MOF are--
--What dives to log. Man you get like 5 pages the same day.
--Snorkel or no?
--PADI MSD--worth it AND pay for the card?
--PADI vs. NAUI (ongoing right now)
Can't think of the others, but admit I like the old stuff. Then again, I'm retired so at night it's basically here or TV.