X7 100 or X8 119 Worthington?

[dannobee]

Can you explain to me what you mean by NDL on boat dives? I plan on doing boat dives with the Sanctuary or the Monterey Express and would rather rent their tanks, they use Steel 90 or 95's if I can remember. MG

By NDL I mean no decompression limits. As your breathing becomes better, you might find yourself back on the boat with 15-1800psi unless you go into deco.

You *could* get two dives out of a mondo tank if you're shore diving Monterey once your SAC rate comes down. But if you're going deep at Monastery, that's another story.


Techdivinglimited has the Faber 120's on sale for $250.

TFH-120-DIN/K-Special 2006 Hydro [TFH-120-DIN-Special] - $249.95 : Tech Diving Limited - Home of Nautilus Dive Planner

That might be the way to go if you still want a giant tank.

 

[mikeguerrero]

By NDL I mean no decompression limits. As your breathing becomes better, you might find yourself back on the boat with 15-1800psi unless you go into deco.

You *could* get two dives out of a mondo tank if you're shore diving Monterey once your SAC rate comes down. But if you're going deep at Monastery, that's another story.


Techdivinglimited has the Faber 120's on sale for $250.

TFH-120-DIN/K-Special 2006 Hydro [TFH-120-DIN-Special] - $249.95 : Tech Diving Limited - Home of Nautilus Dive Planner

That might be the way to go if you still want a giant tank.

Wow,

That's a nice deal but the Fabers are too heavy for my stature. I have dove Faber 80's and 100's and they are heavy, I cannot imagine that 120 on my back.

Well, I drove down to my LDS with my BC and strapped on both tanks. I first tried the Low pressure 95 which has the same dimensions as a Worthington 119. My BC is the PRO QD i3 by Seaquest and is designed to strap on a 8' diameter tank.

As I looped her around even though the clamp shut tight, the velcro only made it to half, in other words the velcro didn't have enough play to fully make contact.

As I stood up it was doable and I moved around the shop no problem; take in mind the tank was empty.

I looked in the mirror and could notice that it's a large tank on my back, not streamlined like the 100.

So I remove her and strap on a true 100 Worthington; man this tank sits perfect for my stature. The velcro makes a clean connection and this tank was filled and I was at about the same weight as the empty steel 95, can you imagine another 10 lbs on you?

I look in the mirror and notice how streamlined I am, and the decision goes without a doubt in my mind to purchase the Worthington 100.

My LDS tells me that maybe in the future as I want to do Deep Dives you can invest into the 119 for the longer dive. But for todays diving which is beach only, I have more than enough with the steel 100.

This was a very close race and I almost got the 119 which is a fantastic tank if you are doing deeper dives beyond 130 feet. The price is exactly the same as a 100 so you don't pay more, you get more.

MG

p.s
Thanks for all that contributed and I really hope this thread finds its way to future new divers confused between these two particular tanks.

 

[CompuDude]

I'm not 100% certain, but you may be mixing up a couple different concepts, and you may wish to resolve that before you make up your mind.

Faber FX100 and Worthington X7-100's are essentially the same tank, although one is painted and one is Galvanized. (It's arguable that the galvanized finish is better in salt water, but it's a minor point).

Faber OR Worthington 119cf tanks are thick, 8" tanks that are the same height (+/- 1") as the HP100s.

The 120cf tanks are 7.25" wide, same as the 100s, but they are really tall and long. They can often be too much someone not 6' or taller.

Now we come to weight.

All of the tanks we have mentioned weigh within 2 pounds of each other... when they're empty of gas and in the water. If you are currently diving steel tanks (HP100s), chances are you will not remove ANY weight, or hardly any, when you go to these tanks. The fact that they weigh more or less on dry land is completely irrelevant to how you need to weight yourself in the water.

The ONLY place the dry weight of the tank makes a difference is during the hike to the beach. You'll be lugging a much heavier tank. Of course, that much heavier tank gives you about 20% more gas, so that's a decent tradeoff at times. It may not feel that way, however, for those times when you have a long hike from your car to the shore...

For what it's worth, my opinion is that HP100s are pretty much the perfect steel tank, for most divers (there are exceptions). They're light enough to be no problem to carry around, and hold a decent amount of air, especially compared to Aluminum 80s. HP119 and HP130s, however, are really nice for boat dives, where lugging them around is less of an issue, and the extra gas can come in handy.

 

[mikeguerrero]

Compudude,

I dive this cylinder from Captain Aqua's my LDS:

TFH-100-DIN [TFH-100-DIN] - $408.95 : Tech Diving Limited - Home of Nautilus Dive Planner

I've dove it twice and here are my specs:

20 lbs of integrated weights
38.7 lbs (cylinder weight)
-14.76 lbs (weight once filled)
-7.26 (weight empty in water)

This places me at 73.46 lbs of dead weight on land prior to entering my dive; once I complete my dive and I exhuast all my air I should be at 66.2 lbs of dead weight going back up to my car.

Now here are the specs for my Worthington HP100 X series:

XS Scuba Worthington Steel Cylinder Specifications

20 lbs of integrated weights
33 lbs (cylinder weight)
-10 lbs (weight once filled)
-2.5 lbs (weight empty in water)

Now this places me at 63 lbs of dead weight walking down to the beach. Once I finish my dive and have an empty cylinder I am at 60.5 lbs of dead weight going back to my car.

Clearly the Worthington 100 tank is not identical to the Faber 100 that I've been renting.

There is clearly 7.26 lbs of extra dead weight with this Faber over the worthington going down to the beach. Once empty there is 5.7 lbs of difference going back up to my car.

The Worthington wins by a long shot in my book; clearly the numbers tell all...

Now you might be comparing another Faber that I don't know about or haven't dove. Which seems to be the case, I could be wrong.

Hope this clarifies my purchase on the Worthington X-series 100 HP tank. I don't want other newbees like myself to get confused.

MG

 

[dannobee]

Mike, there's a flaw in your numbers. If the Faber is 15lbs negative and the Worthington is only 10 lbs negative, the 5 lb difference will need to be added to your weight belt.

 

[mikeguerrero]

Mike, there's a flaw in your numbers. If the Faber is 15lbs negative and the Worthington is only 10 lbs negative, the 5 lb difference will need to be added to your weight belt.

I think I am over weighted to begin with since my first dives took place on Aluminum 80's. I have started on 32 and been working my way down to 20 lbs.

If memory serves me well I believe I dove 20 lbs of weight with the Faber 100's. I was able to make my descent with no problem.

You might be right though, since the Worthington is lighter I have to make it up in the belt, darn....

I will try to descend with just the 20 and bring an extra 5 lbs just in case... Ah man does this mean I should've gone with the Worthington 119???

MG

 

[CompuDude]

I think I am over weighted to begin with since my first dives took place on Aluminum 80's. I have started on 32 and been working my way down to 20 lbs.

If memory serves me well I believe I dove 20 lbs of weight with the Faber 100's. I was able to make my descent with no problem.

You might be right though, since the Worthington is lighter I have to make it up in the belt, darn....

I will try to descend with just the 20 and bring an extra 5 lbs just in case... Ah man does this mean I should've gone with the Worthington 119???

MG

No... you'd be in the same boat but worse. Remember, the only figure that matters is the empty buoyancy in water. With the 119, you'd have more weight on land, and pretty much identical buoyancy in the water. (but nearly 20% more gas... sometimes, worth it)

My apologies, I didn't realize you were diving the monster heavy model Fabers. I don't see those very often... the Worthingtons and Faber FX100s are more popular, and those two have similar weighting characteristics. This changes things, clearly.

The one thing that is the same in the end, however, is the raw amount of weight with the HP100s, on land. The Worthington, at 33 lbs, is over 5 lbs lighter than the Fabers you are diving, at 38.7 lbs. The buoyancy, however, is -7.25 vs. -2.5, so essentially you'll put that exact same weight back onto your belt, ending up with the same general amount of weight in the end.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, sadly...

(The HP119, at 42 lbs, is nearly 10 lbs heavier than the Faber you're diving now, on land, PLUS you'd have to add weight to make up for the buoyancy shift, just like the HP100, meaning you would have taken on in the neighborhood of 15 extra lbs on dry land)

 

[dannobee]

Mike, if your goal is to get as light as possible for the walks back and forth (which I totally sympathize with), try a stainless steel backplate and wing setup. That BC the you're using has about 5-6 lbs of buoyancy in it because of all of the foam in it. I know, I have one.

FWIW, I dive a 9lb plate, a Faber 100 (the really heavy one), and only use 9 lbs of lead. That's with a DUI CF200 drysuit and Thinsulate 400 gm unders with a Carol Davis Polartec jumpsuit. If I use my 200 gm Thinsulate for SoCal diving, I can drop to 4 lbs of lead.

Like I said, you're more than welcome to try one of my backup backplate and wing setups. You just might like it better than the Pro QD.

 

[mikeguerrero]

No... you'd be in the same boat but worse. Remember, the only figure that matters is the empty buoyancy in water. With the 119, you'd have more weight on land, and pretty much identical buoyancy in the water. (but nearly 20% more gas... sometimes, worth it)

My apologies, I didn't realize you were diving the monster heavy model Fabers. I don't see those very often... the Worthingtons and Faber FX100s are more popular, and those two have similar weighting characteristics. This changes things, clearly.

The one thing that is the same in the end, however, is the raw amount of weight with the HP100s, on land. The Worthington, at 33 lbs, is over 5 lbs lighter than the Fabers you are diving, at 38.7 lbs. The buoyancy, however, is -7.25 vs. -2.5, so essentially you'll put that exact same weight back onto your belt, ending up with the same general amount of weight in the end.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, sadly...

(The HP119, at 42 lbs, is nearly 10 lbs heavier than the Faber you're diving now, on land, PLUS you'd have to add weight to make up for the buoyancy shift, just like the HP100, meaning you would have taken on in the neighborhood of 15 extra lbs on dry land)

Wow,

Thank you so much for all this information on shift in weights. I will definitely stay clear of the 119 because I don't want to add that much extra weight, 15 lbs is a lot of extra weight.

Since there is no free lunch in scuba, I will make up the small difference in weight with the Worthington 100, 5 lbs if all is correct.

Can I try to do my test dive with 20 lbs of weight or should I go ahead and strap on the extra 5 lbs and call it over?

MG

 

[mikeguerrero]

Mike, if your goal is to get as light as possible for the walks back and forth (which I totally sympathize with), try a stainless steel backplate and wing setup. That BC the you're using has about 5-6 lbs of buoyancy in it because of all of the foam in it. I know, I have one.

FWIW, I dive a 9lb plate, a Faber 100 (the really heavy one), and only use 9 lbs of lead. That's with a DUI CF200 drysuit and Thinsulate 400 gm unders with a Carol Davis Polartec jumpsuit. If I use my 200 gm Thinsulate for SoCal diving, I can drop to 4 lbs of lead.

Like I said, you're more than welcome to try one of my backup backplate and wing setups. You just might like it better than the Pro QD.

Wow,

I didn't now my Pro QD i3 had all that extra bouyancy! I'm pretty much stuck with it since I just purchased it's only 1 month old. I do love it and have dialed in on my neutral bouyancy. I just need to dial in the correct tank so I can start diving.

My tank is on order so I won't get it for another week and this weekend I plan on doing 2-3 dives at Lovers Point Sunday if my dive buddy calls to confirm, if not I will need a dive buddy for lover's point;

I should be diving the same Faber 100's with my 20 lbs of weight, now I cannot remember if it was 22 or 20 lbs that I had on.

I did however purchase 20 lbs of coated hard weights, so if I cannot make my descent I will rent two lbs and trade in two of my 3 lbs weights in for two 4 lbs of weight. We will see.

MG