Wreck training/gear?

[grazie42]

This got pretty long but I feel it needs to be in order to give enough information for a productive response. I´ll try to make this as unprovoking as possible but I´d just like to stress that this is not a troll...

Just some info:
I´m a PADI diver (gasp!) who´s gone no further then AOW though I have a ANDI nitrox cert. I have about 80 dives in the 3 years since my OW in varying conditions from cold (Sweden) to tropical (Red Sea). I believe I´m a decent diver with regards to bouyancy, basic skills and so on. I have a regular BC, single tank, comp, hoses and so on (your basic OW equipment).

I just came back from a diving holiday where I engaged in some wreckdiving/penetration (guided for the most part). I´d like to be able to do this on my own (ie with a buddy) and safely so I´m in the market for some training and (propably) gear.

In my part of the world most LDSs offer PADI-courses and to get anything else would require a considerable investment in time and money (just for the course). However I don´t feel that the PADI standards will give me what I´m looking for in terms of education as its a no-penetration-course. I have looked at IANTD´s and NAUI´s (a two-part cert) courses and found these to be more compatible with what I´m looking for. IANTD requires 100 dives but as I´m only about 15 dives away from that I don´t see it as a real hindrance.

My questions (finally):
-Does anyone have experience from the PADI, NAUI or IANTD courses that they´d like to share?

-Are there any other agencies/courses with regards to wreckdiving I should consider

-When do you think one should start wreck-training? (I obviously feel that now is the right time)

-What kind of gear do you think one should have when wreck-diving?

 

[landfish]

I think it is not so much the agency you use i think it is the instrutor you have with your training

 

[mania]

Mainly it's the instructor. I'm in similar situation as you and wreck diving is sooner or later the direction I would go. I have several friends who are wreck divers - most of them are IANTD instructors - so I'll probably choose this one. As the gear needed - all I know is that I should have much more technical stuff that the one you have as classic AOWD including doubles, proper torches and guideline. If you want to do Baltic Sea wrecks you also have to have good knifes - there are nets almost everywhere. And for Baltic Sea you need a dry suit.
But I'm sure here are guys that did wrecks (maybe even Andrea Doria and others) so they would know much better that I do.
Mania

 

[grazie42]

I already have a drysuit mania, in sweden that is almost standard OW gear
Even during summer temps are around 6C @ 30 meters...I´ve found that to be a bit cold with a wetsuit (bought my drysuit this autumn)...as for doubles I´m afraid you may be right but that will propably set me back about 1500$ just for a bp/w, doubles and manifold...oh well, let´s see what others have to say about this...

 

[flw]

Prior to doing any penetration training, it is worth spending time diving around and on wrecks, and not going inside - sometimes things give the impression they are solid, but a simple knock or brush against them will indicate otherwise - it can be taught to a certain extent, however it still needs to be incombination with time and experience - and even then it's not always easy to tell one way or another.
I'll admit, I don't have any specialist training, they didn't do it when I started out, so I learned by being mentored over several years. I still got myself into bother last summer when footling around in the Krohn Prinz in Scapa, when a huge beam turned out to be rather less solid than I'd thought.
For any kind of penetration diving you need a fully backed up system, such as twins, adn know how to use them, a single is unlikely to be enough. Good lights ( read expensive) and at least 2 of them.

 

[BigJetDriver]

I have looked at IANTD´s and NAUI´s (a two-part cert) courses and found these to be more compatible with what I´m looking for. IANTD requires 100 dives but as I´m only about 15 dives away from that I don´t see it as a real hindrance.

-When do you think one should start wreck-training? (I obviously feel that now is the right time)

-What kind of gear do you think one should have when wreck-diving?

Grazie,

In reagrd to what they now call "full disclosure", I should point out that I am an IANTD INSTRUCTOR TRAINER and an Assistant Curriculum Director for one of that agency's programs.

I would have to say that both of the programs you have investigated represent excellent training for what you want to do. Of course, I feel that the IANTD program has the edge in that respect.

In any case, as other writers have pointed out, you should check carefully into the instructor's background and experience. The instructor will want to interview you, but YOU should also interview the instructor to find out if you are compatible personality types. (This last will be viewed as heresy in some camps!)

As to when you should start training, if you feel comfortable with it, and you know you want to do that kind of diving, you should get prepared properly from the beginning.

Some folks, like our Fiona, who have been at it for ages, (Sorry, Fiona, we are all a bit more "mature" these days!) learned their craft by trial and error, since there wasn't any other option, as she points out. Now, you can avoid a lot of mistakes by takeing the training and getting started right!

As to equipment, your instructor and the course requirements will guide you. Just remember, in any kind of overhead environment, redundant back-ups equal "life"!! Also, there is never any substitute for "good head-work"! If you have any doubt, read Bernie Chowdhury's "The Last Dive" which is a testment to bad head-work and decision-making.

Enjoy your training and your diving!

 

[flw]

.

Some folks, like our Fiona, who have been at it for ages, (Sorry, Fiona, we are all a bit more "mature" these days!) learned their craft by trial and error, since there wasn't any other option, as she points out. Now, you can avoid a lot of mistakes by takeing the training and getting started right!

!

You're not going to the Inspiration weekend are you?

F

 

[GDI]

Select your instructor wisely. You may consider to do a cavern class enroute to completing a wreck class. The equipment requirements are similar and the techniques are easily crossed over. Now if you are not able to attend a cavern class because of your geographical location Then by all means start on simple wrecks getting to know them and the risks they present. Take a extended range class and advanced nitrox and deco courses, wrecks tend to be deep. Doubles with Bp & wings lights of at least 50 watts or equivalent with a minimum of two good back ups, 2-3 reels with heavy weight line, cutting shears and/or a knife. you instructor will advise you as to what you need. Good Luck

 

[grazie42]

Thank you for the responses so far!

I have been leaning towards ANDI because it´s an "all-in-one" which appeals to me specially as taking either NAUI or ANDI will require travel on my part...

BigJets reasoning, ie DIR (Do It Right) from the start is the reason I´ve pretty much decided against PADI as that course doesent include penetration per standards...

From what I´ve read (on SB at least) overhead is pretty much overhead be it cave, wreck or deco...would you say that´s a correct description?

As I am most interested in wrecks not caves thats the kind of course I was looking for but if instruction is pretty much the same regardless then maybe there´s no point...

As for the class I´m thinking of travelling somewhere to get the instruction anyway and cave-training is something I´ve thought about. Florida is almost "inexpensive" or at least equal in cost to other destinations with the deals I´ve seen and I´ve read alot about ginnie springs on SB so that might be an option...

I had a feeling about the equipment required (I figured doubles are almost a minimum requirement). As I won´t be doing these kinds of dives regularly (because of my geographical location) I´m thinking of renting equipment for whatever class I decide to take and subsequent dives (except for the lamp which I´ll certainly find useful in Swedens dark waters anyway).

Once again, thanks for the responses so far...

 

[MikeFerrara]

BigJets reasoning, ie DIR (Do It Right) from the start is the reason I´ve pretty much decided against PADI as that course doesent include penetration per standards...

I would agree that the PADI course isn't a serious wreck diving course but the third is an assesment for penetration and a mock penetration done outside the wreck. The 4th dive of the course IS OPTIONALLY a penetration dive.

I will add that the course doesn't include all the line drill and emergency training that a cavern/cave course does and I think teaching in an overhead to these standards is insane.

Most of the instructors that I know who teach the course don't teach penetration because they don't have any overhead training themselves. Believe it or not you don't need any overhead training or experience to teach this course even though you have the option of teaching penetration.