Wreck Penetration Training?

[Mako Mark]

there is talk that the next DSAT course is a technical wreck penetration course..

 

[Dive-aholic]

there is talk that the next DSAT course is a technical wreck penetration course..

Any idea when they'll have that one out?

 

[msandler]

Lots of agencies do a wreck pen course. iantd, tdi, etc. There are differences in wreck and cave diving (though narrow minded folk would dissagree) so take a serious wreck course for wrecks. What it comes down to in the end is the instructor. I did a lot of my early training with ACUC (OW, deep and wreck pen certs.) My instructor had me laying line blinfolded in a dense forest in the dark, doing all the line recover drills etc, for three nights as part of "HIS" intense curriculum. His curriculum/training surpassed that of the iantd tech wreck curriculum. This ACUC instructor's deep curriculum included O2 deco with 1 stage and doubles.

Find a good instructor, usually the locals and the LDS' will point you to the area's "tech" instructor you may need to pry a bit. Also, look into the various Agency cousework and you should be able to identify the skills you will learn.

 

[Mako Mark]

Mike, land drills are an essential part of any overhead environment course and it sounds like you instructor prepared you well. Lines are designed to allow you to exit in ZERO visibility, so you should practice their use in zero visibility both on land (where you can talk and work through problems) and underwater (where you cant).

Seahound, if this is an area that interests you, go read some books like "the last dive" or "shadow divers", they are NOT designed to train you, but can give you great insight into overhead environment diving, its porblems, details and hazards.

They also give historical acounts how the application of cave diving techniques to wreck penetration drastically changed and IMO improved the safety of wreck penetration.

They are also a great read.

 

[tndiveinstruct1]

I can only talk from the dives I've done, but if your at 130 ,tie in a line, penatrate 70 feet, reel in a line . I'm pretty sure you are past the 7 min NDL and are now into some minor deco obligation.

No, this is what I meant:

Drop down to the wreck at 60'. Tie a line. Penetrate the wreck for 70'. Depth hasn't changed, so the depth is still 60', which gives an NDL of 55 minutes on air. Of course, when I dive wrecks like this, and don't teach, I prefer to dive on Eanx32 which gives me about 90 minutes at that depth...

The 130' is a COMBINATION of the depth PLUS the distance of penetration. So if the wreck is in 40' of water, the theoretical distance you can go inside the wreck is 90', and if it is in 80' of water, then that distance is 50' max. Of course, anyone can turn the dive at any point.

Not to mention that the gas management issues involved.

Of course there are several gas management issues involved, but in the Wreck Diver course these are covered. We state in the training that we use 1/3 of our gas to descend AND penetrate, 1/3 for exit and ascent, and 1/3 for reserve. Also, I typically have a pony bottle with me, and I also have a large capacity tank for back gas.

there's alot more to overhead penatration than the average OW diver is ready for

And the average OW diver isn't going to be able to take the Wreck Specialty course, since standards dictate that the student be at least a AOW.

and if I'm not mistaken,any overhead is concidered tech and needs to be planned as a tech dive. Good luck

And divers have to START somewhere to get training and experience in those areas should they care to go in that direction. The purpose of this course is to FAMILIARIZE divers with the skills, knowledge, planning, organization, procedures, techniques, problems, hazards, and excitement of diving on wrecks. The course is intended as a safe, supervised INTRODUCTION to wreck diving. This course is not meant to qualify people to dive the Doria or deep wrecks....


I apologize for any confusion that I may have caused, but I think that this clarifies it a bit more.



Randy Cain

 

[tndiveinstruct1]

I think tndiveinstruct1 meant 60' depth and 70' penetration, not 130' depth, which is within PADI limitations.

We did a PADI Wreck specialty that did include penetration to those standards and within the light zone. We tied off our own reels, which we were required to have, then blew our own bags, which we were also required to have. These weren't PADI requirements, they were our instructor's requirements for his particular course. We had the option of doing the wreck specialty with another LDS and instructor, but, like your course, there was no penetration, and it didn't include reels and bags. It's the instructor, not PADI. PADI sets the basic standards, the instructor has to meet those, but can add beyond that.

Thanks for the explanation for me. I thought I was clear on it.

Your Wreck specialty course sounds a LOT like mine. Even before we went into the water, we practiced running the line in very low vis. How did we do that you ask? Simple. Our instructor blacked out the windows in the shop with thick black curtains so that NO light could filter in. He gave us each 3 lights, and we had to lay the line in the shop in the same way we would lay it in the wreck we were going to dive. No crossing of the line across entry/exit ways. And he also showed us a way of attaching the line to objects in such a fashion that it was secured but easy to follow. It involves circling the object, but then wrapping the line exiting the anchor point around the line entering the anchor point. This way the line doesn't get lost in zero vis, and the people behind you that are following the line can easily see and follow the line.

We also had DSMB's as well.... and we even used a jonline on one of the dives since the current was pretty strong and a LOT of divers where hanging on the mooring line....

Randy Cain

 

[tndiveinstruct1]

there is talk that the next DSAT course is a technical wreck penetration course..

I was just in Destin Florida before Christmas doing my DSAT Gas Blender course, and my instructor was saying that he heard that as well at DEMA... That will be a course that I am going to do... Of course I need to get hopping on getting more training and experience, but I for one LOVE wreck diving and the history behind the wreck....


Randy

 

[Dive-aholic]

Thanks for the explanation for me. I thought I was clear on it.

Your Wreck specialty course sounds a LOT like mine. Even before we went into the water, we practiced running the line in very low vis. How did we do that you ask? Simple. Our instructor blacked out the windows in the shop with thick black curtains so that NO light could filter in. He gave us each 3 lights, and we had to lay the line in the shop in the same way we would lay it in the wreck we were going to dive. No crossing of the line across entry/exit ways. And he also showed us a way of attaching the line to objects in such a fashion that it was secured but easy to follow. It involves circling the object, but then wrapping the line exiting the anchor point around the line entering the anchor point. This way the line doesn't get lost in zero vis, and the people behind you that are following the line can easily see and follow the line.

We also had DSMB's as well.... and we even used a jonline on one of the dives since the current was pretty strong and a LOT of divers where hanging on the mooring line....

Randy Cain

We didn't do land drills in the dark (wish we had), but we did do some land drills with the reel before we took it in the water.

 

[verona]

It is true that it is the instructor that counts. I did the PADI Wreck Spec and the instructor had us line laying blind folded on land. He gave us an exercise in tying off the line, we were blind-folder and then told, you have 2 minute's air left, find your way back to your initial entry point.

In water, we practised laying lines and reeling them in with eyes open and then we had to do it with eyes shut (this was outside the wreck). The dive op also has an old boat on land which it uses to demonstrate hazards inside wrecks so we were taken into that and we had to make our way through it while the hazards were shown to us.

I felt that within the limitations of the course (penetration in the light zone and no more than 40m from surface) it was a good training exercise. But I guess not all instructors and not all dive ops will take this thorough approach. So you can have 2 people with a Wreck Spec Cert but with very different experiences,

 

[miketsp]

At the SSI LDS I frequent, the wreck penetration course is pretty rigorous and requires you to get out of a labyrinth of a wreck (following the line you previously ran) in zero vis without a mask.