Wreck ownership

[Bob DBF]

I was reading Barry Clifford's first book on the Whydah and he talked about Mel Fischer coming up and consulting with him. Mel said the best advice he could give on the operation, was to get the best lawyer you can find and make sure you pay him. It paid off for Barry Clifford, but the laws were changed so the next person finding an old wreck gets screwed.



Bob
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I honestly feel I'm a better diver now. I learned to respect the ocean the hard way. One swallow at a time. Mark Derail

 

[Akimbo]

Gary Gentile describes John Moyer's claim on the Andrea Doria, and another dude's unsuccessful claim on the Lusitania in his two books on the Lusitania.

The UK has a governing body that controls the salvage rights to wreaks. Keith Jessop discusses it in considerable detail in his book Goldfinder. I’m not sure they existed when Liverpool & London War Risks Insurance Association sold the rights to the Lusitania in 1967 or if it controls commercial wreaks that are owed by insurers.

As a general rule of thumb, all wreaks are owned unless the owner expressly abandons it — which rarely happens unless there is considerable liability involved. Those wreaks usually get salvaged or blown to bits because they are hazards to navigation.

 

[Diver0001]

It controls all wrecks and all wreckage washed ashore in UK waters. The premise is that all wreckage has an owner and they are charged with locating the owner.

If no owner can be found then the crown takes ownership by default. As a diver or beachcomber you can't legally keep anything you find as far as I know.

R..

 

[Akimbo]

It sounds like their jurisdiction goes beyond that. Keith Jessop described working with them for salvage rights on wreaks off Iceland, Norway, and Russia in addition to UK waters. Sorry, I don't recall the name.

 

[Diver0001]

It's called Receiver of Wreck.

Outside UK territorial waters certain wrecks are protected by UK law. These include, but are not limited to war wrecks and wrecks with certain historical or archaeological value.

Other than that, derelicts can be salvaged once the RoW has been given ... 1 or 2 years? to wait for an owner to come forward.

Within UK territorial waters, it's another matter. All wrecks and wreckage, right down to the dumbest little thing that might have fallen overboard, becomes property of the government if an owner does not claim it. This even applies to wreckage that was lost outside territorial waters and drifted in.

R..

 

[Searcaigh]

Back in the mid 80s I worked for a salvage company, the owner of which "purchased" either the wrecks or" the rights to the cargo" from Lloyds of London who as the insurers "owned" the wrecks as they had paid out to the original owners after they had been sunk. In fact all of the wrecks the company "bought" had been torpedoed during WW1 by U-boats and were carrying tin ore from Malaya (now Malaysia), and we were salvaging the tin ore.

We were working using saturation diving over a period of two years mainly off the south coast of Ireland on two different DSVs using airlifts to bring the tin ore to the surface and store it on skips on the deck area, and on one occasion teak logs, but that is another story.

Wrecks were at around 120M, we were boarded once by the Irish Navy and were possibly being charged for piracy until we could prove "ownership" of the wrecks, which of course was done otherwise I would have spent time in some Irish prison.

It appears that one time we docked in Cork for a weekend to crew change one of the boat crew had been talking in a pub and 2+2 = 157 so an article appeared in a newspaper that some ship was stealing Irish treasures (possibly from the Spanish Armada) etc etc

NB None of us had eye patches, parrots on our shoulders or even peg legs, but we did have a couple of drinks with the Irish navy boarding party afterwards

 

[Jared0425]

Another question to add to this conundrum, if a wreck is not historical, can it be owned in a national marine sanctuary?

 

[Diver0001]

Insofar that it is considered an artificial reef, yes.

Sanctuaries are also administered by the government, which has legal ownership of the wreck anyway. If you're planning something on a wreck in a sanctuary you'll probably regret it.

R..

 

[BugHunterNY]

I agree with a few others - the Doria salvage rights story is an interesting one. Moyer (after years of legal battles) was granted salvage rights - but remember salvage rights and ownership are not the same thing.

In most cases, salvage what you want and enjoy it. If it's a war grave, don't touch it. Be responsible, reasonable and respectful - and you'll probably be ok.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Akimbo]

A letter was received from the insurance company within days after the Saturation Systems dive on the Doria was announced in 1973. It basically said bring up what you can and we will see you in Admiralty court to settle up... which is what was expected. Unfortunately, it never go that far. :depressed: