Would you really know what was going on if your computer went into Deco...?

[MikeFerrara]

Having a lot of redundent equipment can go to far and be a bigger problem. Some people can't handle the basic equipment let alone having two of everything. Some people get so dead set on two or three of everything I'm surprised they don't require two bodies of water incase the one your in dries up.

Gary D.

Who in this thread recommended two or three of everything?

When I have a decompression obligation or any overhead I really like a dual output valve. I also think it's best to be sure that each diver has enough gas at the end to get both through a nice ascent.

In most cases all you really need is gas to breath.

I don't really think this is over thinking things do you?

 

[ArcticDiver]

When it comes to decompression I wouldn't say that I really trust anything but if a table and a computer use the same model they'll yeild similar numbers. However some mentioned in this thread going into deco to see what the computer does. The first most important thing is to know that ahead of time. Yes? Even if we go so far as to say that the plan might change because of planned for or unplanned for events surely we want a plan that can take that change into account. right? So the first point is looking ahead and not behind. That way we know that we have enough gas and can handle a problem.

When it comes to models you need to make your own choice but I start stops deeper than a haldanian model. Even on a no-stop dive my "safety" stop starts deeper than 15 ft. As it is, for many of the dives that are done every day as no-stop dives I would do what I would consider minimum deco. I could go on and on but the point is to become familiar with the decompression stratagies that you're comfortable with and incorporate them into your diving before you have a decompression obligation.

You can do it because the computer says so or you can do it because it's what you think you should do. One way is easier and one way you make the choices. The other way some one else decides.

I think you and I are closer together in our thinking than earlier posts seemed to indicate. We both agree, I think, that the diver needs to understand the tool being used. Then use that information to make a decision the diver is comfortable with. Whether that tool is a computer or a table is entirely up to the diver whose life is at stake.

We keep this up for a few more thousand gigabytes and we'll all, well almost all, agree.

 

[truva]

They might be enough for truva.

Or at least give us time to get to each other. I have given this some thought, they are small but I think they fit with the type of diving we do. When we bought these tanks I really thought about the 30’s but then I felt like we’d leave these when me might take the 13’s so the thinking was the 13’s you have is better than the 30’s setting in the basement.

But Genesis is right, I don’t think a 13 would get me out and up from 110-feet or so. If I should ever have to find out more than one thing would have to go really bad. At that point a missed deco stop wouldn’t matter until the air problem was solved.

Truva

 

[Gary D.]

Who in this thread recommended two or three of everything?

When I have a decompression obligation or any overhead I really like a dual output valve. I also think it's best to be sure that each diver has enough gas at the end to get both through a nice ascent.

In most cases all you really need is gas to breath.

I don't really think this is over thinking things do you?

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I was just refering to what people have said throughout the years. Just last summer I ran across a guy that would of has 2 weight belts if he could. He even had 2 slates, 2 marker buoys, 2 masks and a bunch of other stuff.

I like your way of thinking. Some people load up like a week long cave dive for every dive they do.

Keep it simple. Some people can't keep tract of themselves let alone more than one of anything.

The NAVY used to define SCUBA equipment as a Container for air and a way to get it into the diver. EVERYTHING else was an option, including hoses on the Aqua-Masters.

Didn't mean to upset anyone.

Gary D.

 

[rcohn]

Well I would hope this is every divers goal but many just clump up on the line during safety stops. That isn't good enough when you have a decompression obligation because there isn't always a line. I wasn't speaking to the original question. I was speaking to Don's suggestion for a way to practice. I gave what I thought was better preperation. Read the book or use the simulation mode to understand the display.

I was listing things that should be learned before going into decompression on purpose.

I don't beleive that I'm reading this. The way to test the computer decompression mode is by using it's simulation mode not by going out and doing a staged decompression dive. In most recreational computers this is an emergency management feature only. You're talking about creating the emergency on purpose to see how it works.

You're kidding right?

It was under my response which suggested putting the computer rather than the diver into decompression. To refresh your memory:

A reasonably safe way to practice short deco times is to use an appropriate nitrox fill while running your computer in air mode. This way you can run up several minutes of deco time on the computer while remaining within safe NDLs. You should use tables or a second computer to confirm your profile is safe.

This is more useful than simulation mode because you will see how the computer reads under real conditions and how well you can control your profile needed to clear the deco obligation.

This is no substitute for proper training in decompression techniques. However, completely understanding your computer so that you will know how it reacts and what you should do if an unplanned deco situation occurs is valuable.

As you can see my point was to simulate the deco mode while the diver remained within the NDL, preserving the direct ascent option. By the way I didn't think it was necessary to mention that the first step is always reading the manual.

While everyone should plan their dives and dive within their training, we all know that unforeseen circumstances can develop. Divers should know how to react and understand their computer display. Some scary stories float around the internet of divers the misinterpreted the unfamiliar display.

While reading the manual is fundamental, all diver training involves in water practice? You wouldn't consider a diver well trained in advanced deco techniques if all he did was read a manual, no matter how well he understood the material.

If diver wants to more fully understand his instruments and the contingencies available in recreational diving your efforts would be better spent suggesting ways to safely obtain the experience. Recommending complex multi-gas advanced deco training does little to help a purely recreational diver. Most are unlikely to take such a course and would quickly forget the unused skills if they did.

Ralph

 

[Genesis]

Or at least give us time to get to each other. I have given this some thought, they are small but I think they fit with the type of diving we do. When we bought these tanks I really thought about the 30’s but then I felt like we’d leave these when me might take the 13’s so the thinking was the 13’s you have is better than the 30’s setting in the basement.

But Genesis is right, I don’t think a 13 would get me out and up from 110-feet or so. If I should ever have to find out more than one thing would have to go really bad. At that point a missed deco stop wouldn’t matter until the air problem was solved.

Truva

When dive a single below 60-70' I sling a 19cf as a pony. Its light, small, and WILL get me back from about 100' with a safety stop. It MIGHT get me back from as deep as 130.

If I'm diving below 100', or in any overhead, these days I take light doubles (e.g. 72s). They WILL get me back from any depth that I'm willing to breath Nitrox at, including a deco obligation if my slung deco gas fails, and in the absolute worst case I can isolate and save half of whatever I had at the point the water turned brown.

Your butt, your choice, but if you ask me I'll tell you what I think and why I believe that if you find yourself in trouble in 100' of water, that little pony isn't gonna do it.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Your butt, your choice, but if you ask me I'll tell you what I think and why I believe that if you find yourself in trouble in 100' of water, that little pony isn't gonna do it.

As much as it pains me to say this, I've got to agree. That's why I'll take a set of double 104's any day. They aren't that heavy once you get used to them and there is very little that you can't deal with if something goes wrong.

Besides, if I were to waste space on a pony, where would I sling my stage?

13 cu. ft bottles do have their place. I'm seriously considering using one for my argon. I'll be able to get an entire weekend out of the bottle. My 6 needs to be refilled after 3 dives.

 

[truva]

Your butt, your choice, but if you ask me I'll tell you what I think and why I believe that if you find yourself in trouble in 100' of water, that little pony isn't gonna do it.

But since I wouldn't be alone, I would have 26 cubic-feet before we'd have to start using the same tank. I never plan on using those guys at all anyway even for an unplanned deco stop.

I only like to plan on one really bad thing to happen on a dive. Anymore than that and I wouldn't be enjoying it.

Truva

 

[Cave Diver]

I only like to plan on one really bad thing to happen on a dive. Anymore than that and I wouldn't be enjoying it.

Truva

How exactly would you go about knowing which "bad thing" is going to happen to you?

I personally prefer to plan on a worst case scenario and anything less is a cakewalk.

 

[Albion]

In an ideal world you should know what all those numbers and arrows on your computer mean when it does go deco, but i have seen many people who dont.

If you want to find out how it works in real life one alternative would be to set your computer into conservative or altitude modes (i use a suunto which has these dont know about others), then you will get forced to do a deco stop but still in effectively safe conditions, ie well inside what tables dictate