would you put a inexperienced diver on this dive

[zenheadhunter]

I'm wondering why you used the word "mod" here.

(MOD) the depth at which the partial pressure of oxygen (ppO2) of a gas mix exceeds a safe limit.

mike I used Mod because the diver will be diving nitrox and was talking about using 32% (this is the depth at the sand line also) so partial pressure will be at 1.4ppo2 at 111' and at 134' will exceed 1.6 if he bottoms out

 

[zenheadhunter]

Just to let everyone know i talks to this diver again today as a last ditch effort to to change the divers mind, so in my heart i know i did all that i could have, so if something happens i didn't,just stand by and do anything to express my safety concerns. What i did was take the diver off to the side and flooded there mind with the many thing that could happen where he would never return from this trip as i know the diver is depending on someone else to keep them safe. One person on this thread asked was i part of this dive and i would like you all to know in no way would i take part in such reckless dive behavior. My point to posting this was the need for advice from more exp. divers on this forum and the consensus among those who replied assures me that my take on this choice, was right on about it being just plain stupid. As i spoke to the diver i could see i was scarring the **** out of him and he did not seem to be rejecting what i was saying as we spoke. I said i was leaving this alone but after some of your comments i wanted to try one more time. Thanks for all the help guys . What the final decision will be who knowsI hope it is to postpone this for later when the diver is more experienced and skilled

 

[aquaregia]

mike I used Mod because the diver will be diving nitrox and was talking about using 32% (this is the depth at the sand line also) so partial pressure will be at 1.4ppo2 at 111' and at 134' will exceed 1.6 if he bottoms out

Oh, so what's the planned depth? I'm mostly curious, although I'm fairly sure it wouldn't change my thoughts on the matter even if it was 40'.

 

[Slamfire]

When I use wetsuits in 50 F water I use 14 mm (7+7) and I'll still feel the cold, but at least I know I wont be hypothermic. With only 5mm I would be worried about hypothermia.

When I was a young stupid teenager I pushed myself too hard on breath holding dives and messed up my inner ear -- the balance center. The ensuing barrage of vertigo attacks was a very horrible experience. I learned my lesson and after healing I never pushed my physical limits again in the water. I never dive when I have clearing problems -- much less clearing problems and nose bleeds.

The only way I would make that dive under those conditions, is in an emergency situation were I am willing to give up my life for whatever it is that I want to accomplish in that dive. It would have to be something extremely important to me, something like saving my son's life.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

John ,this is not part of the aow training , this diver will be getting his deep specialty on this dive which i thought the limit was 100 feet max for deep cert with padi (i may be wrong) It is just to much to soon IMHO.

mike I used Mod because the diver will be diving nitrox and was talking about using 32% (this is the depth at the sand line also) so partial pressure will be at 1.4ppo2 at 111' and at 134' will exceed 1.6 if he bottoms out

OK, so now I'm more confused and must make another post for you all to ignore: :mooner:

This diver has not made any dives since there checkout dive

You typed the above words in the original post of this thread, so unless 3 Deep Specialty dives have already been made since you typed those words the diver in question will not be "getting his deep specialty on this dive."

If 3 deep dives have not been made, the AOW Deep Dive is the 1st dive of the Deep Specialty, and could be dived to a max depth of 110' if the Instructor has written permission from PADI to conduct AOW Deep Dives to 110' at this specific dive site.

PADI Deep Diver is a cert that gives the diver a recommended operational depth of 130' so it would be pretty silly to limit the check out dives to 100' max. Dive #3 of the Deep Specialty has a max depth of 130' and where I have taught or witnessed Deep Specialty certifications, Dive #3 is at least 120'.

So your friend with only the 4 check out dives of OW has completed the non-diving Nitrox cert (?) and has at least 8 training dives scheduled. With all the required Academics of Nitrox, AOW and Deep it sounds like your friend is taking proper training seriously. It would be interesting to hear about the actual dive from someone who was actually on the dive.

 

[Doc]

Did the "inexperienced diver" in question annoy the wrong people?

This sounds like the Dive Mafia's equivalent of cement overshoes.

Maybe the OP could post a picture of the diver in question's girlfriend.

(Or have I been watching too much Law and Order)?

 

[Bonairetrip]

The OP seems to have handled a difficult situation as well as possible. From what has been posted by the OP (which is all we have to go on), this is IMHO very clearly an inappropriate dive for this diver at this time.

Adults make decisons every day -- some are reckless while others are simply risky while still others are benign. We generally presume that adults are aware of risks and make a decison understanding those risks.

The paybacks for advising someone else to minimize risks are, best case, delayed. IMHO, that does not eliminate the obligation to do what you reasonably can to prevent a bad outcome --- especially when the risks are not always obvious, recognized and/or understood. And the OP seems to have done this by making sure his feelings are known and by not participating in the dive.

If the diver does the dive and nothing bad happens this time, then it is a "I told you so." Or, if the diver doesn't do the dive perhaps, in a few years, he recognizes how risky his dive would have been and then thanks the OP for very possibly saving his life/health. Or the diver sort of nurses a grudge that he allowed himself to be talked out of "a great dive I had the skills for".

But, speaking for me only, I could not live with myself if I did not at least try to lay out the risks/issues. If something bad happens, I know I did what I could. If nothing bad happens, I know I acted with a pure heart.

 

[Mike Boswell]

mike I used Mod because the diver will be diving nitrox and was talking about using 32% (this is the depth at the sand line also) so partial pressure will be at 1.4ppo2 at 111' and at 134' will exceed 1.6 if he bottoms out

If I am understanding you correctly, you were told that the diver would be using Nitrox EAN32, and that that mixture had a MOD of 134'. If 134' was given as the mod and not the planned depth of the dive, can you tell us how deep the diver is actually going to go?

FYI: According to PADI Enriched Air Diver Manual P.86,

The Maximum Depth for EAN32 (calculated for 1.4 ata) is calculated as (46.2/0.32)-33 = 111 fsw.

The Contingency Depth for EAN32 (calculated for 1.6 ata) is (52.8/0.32)-33 = 132 fsw.

The Maximum Depth is just that, the maximum recommended depth for that O2 blend. It is the depth at which the partial pressure of Oxygen (PPO2) equals 1.4 ata.

The Contingency Depth figures are there so that you can track your oxygen exposure if you accidentally exceed the Maximum Depth for some reason (PADI Enriched Air Diver Manual P.73).

 

[Hammerhead]

Consider this,you have a new diver who has just certified in ow and going for there aow and had major trouble in there checkout dives with clearing(nose bleeding,dizziness,ear pain) and some buoyancy control issues. This diver has not made any dives since there checkout dive but are going to do a dive with strong currents and to a mod of 134' in the atlantic with 1/2 of there equipment being new to them with 0 dives on this equipment. Personally i like this diver and would hate to see them get into trouble .I mentioned some of the conditions and possible issues where as they could get separated from the dm and or the instructor (visibility can go away quickly on this wreck site)and be on their own. They have never used or shot a smb and did not know what a finger spool was for etc. Am i wrong for thinking this is to much to soon ?

If this is all true, then this diver is well on the way to becoming an unhappy statistic.

Shoot him / her in the kneecap ASAP.

Oh, and report the Instructor - this is practically criminal.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It really does not matter how deep the diver is actually going on a hard bottom site like this. Good practice is to mix for the bottom. 32 is not a mix for 134ft. Especially if the diver is inexperienced and has buoyancy issues.