Would you dive with someone who wouldn't share air if you were OOA?

[MagicChicken]

Granted different countries have different laws, but I have trouble with the concept of a person being charged with manslaughter thru inaction.

Canadian law goes as follow: if there is no obvious risk to yourself AND you ignore someone in danger --> criminal negligence. It's almost as bad as unpremeditated murder.

The law also states that putting your life at risk to save someone is a lesser form of criminal negligence, towards yourself, although I've never heard of someone being prosecuted for that.

The law is quite open for interpretation. What would constitute a threat to a new OW diver may only be routine procedure for a professionnal diver.

 

[MagicChicken]

Just a terrible incident that comes to mind:

Several years ago, a farmer, his son and a firefighter friend were working on a tank of manure. Something was wrong with a valve and the farmer decided to investigate.

He took a large breath and climbed down the stairs into the manure storage. 30s later he fell unconscious. His son went rushed to the rescue and suffered asphyxiation as well.

There were two unconscious guys in the tank. Guess what the firefighter did? He went down there and died.

All three of them were trained to work in a low oxygen environment. They all got blamed for their own deaths.

It's sad because all of them have shown good will. However they neglected their own safety and made things much worse.

So... back to the topic: I would not expect a new OW diver to provide as much help as a dive professionnal. Each spring I test my equipment and practice the rescue drills in a quarry. My buddies know I would do all I can to help them... just not kill myself.

 

[meltedtime]

I'm a relatively new and inexperienced diver. >30 dives.

I honestly can't beleive that anyone diving would deny another diver air should an emergency situation arise UW. Makes me sad.

I do understand the arguments about different situations but to generalize and say you would not share air is disgusting. You should have your membership card in the human race revoked.

 

[greg98072]

Surfacing with 500 lbs only means that you deprived yourself of potentially valuable decompression (safety stop) time. I'd rather blow off most the end of my tank at 10 to 15 feet under the boat.

Having a rule that may have people holding their breath, ascending faster or blowing or shortening their stop in the interest of safety. It would not be this Gregs rule.

I would not buddy up with someone that stated they would not share air. But if I happened to need their air during the dive I would take it using whatever force necessary without limits. It would be in their best interest to never be the closest diver to me.

 

[RonzoTheGreat]

YOUR MOTHER LIED!!!

(when she said there is no such thing as a stupid question)

 

[hudson_hawk]

no way

 

[Fotoz4FX]

I would question my own integrity if I ran out of air and whether or not I would want to dive with me so why wouldn't I dive with someone who refuses to share air?
Solo Divers don't have buddies and every diver is, in fact, responsible for his or her own life.
Has anyone ever faced panic?

I have and I don't know if I'd want to be sharing air with someone who thinks of me only as a source of air. As MagicChicken so eloquently has provided a scenario for rationale, statistics have verified his story. 70% of all would be rescuers in a drowning scenario are victims of their own actions. A drowning (or in this case OOA panicked diver) victim sees the rescuer ONLY as a platform from which to climb out of the water... you'd be amazed at how expendable you are as a rescuer in such a situation. That's why Rescue Divers are so valuable... they train in approach and how to control the victim in panic.

 

[Chugwhump]

In a word......NO.

I will not dive with someone that I know has this mindset. And neither will they want to dive with me.
As I only dive with similar minded "Buddies", this will not ever be an issue for me.
However; If you are a solo diver I share your mindset.
Be prepared!

I am a recreational diver. For those that push the envelope, I accept, that you accept, that you are on your own.

I do this for fun.
I build 600'+ buildings. I go way too high and do really dangerous things as safely as I can.
I dive to get away from danger and relax.
My ego generally does not enter the dive equation. (did I spell that right?)

I love reading about those daring people that have created so many incredible techniques that we now take for granted. That they have that improved this sport is not argueable..
I am very sorry to hear when one of the old SCUBA Pioneers die.

I started this activity in 1977 at the age of 12 here in South Florida.
Over 2000 dives.
Over 90% of them from the beach.
When we were younger we only had enough money for used gear and airfills. Forget that "boat dive" stuff.
We only got to do that on our birthday or when someone's Dad took out the boat and didn't feel like fishing.
We dove from the beach out of neccesity.
We still routinely kick over 1/2 mile from shore and then drift as much as 1 mile with the current thereafter, and make the diagonal run to the point of entry when possible.
From 12th Street in Pompano to the Copenhagen off of LBTS and back is a great day.
South current only days...it needs to be said.

Personally, I am just always ready to offer up air to a fellow human being.
This is also why I dive big 'ol steel 130's exclusively, whether I am 150' down or 1.5' down.
It is real hard to find gas when you are underwater sometimes.

I think that if you do not want to be burdened with an octo that is great!
I think that if you like those newfangled Air 2's from your inflator, Wonderful.
I just will not want to dive with you.
It doesn't mean I think that you are a bad diver, or I sit in judgement of you, it just means that we are incompatible as as team that is all.

My Faber 149's will arrive in May. 60 pounds of wonderful steel!
I can handle them physically. A 3/4 mile walk down the beach after a 4 hour dive in the 20'-35' range holds no fear for me. I just love taking the young fellers I work with out on the reefs. Those stairmaster climbing, energy shake gulping, body shaving, low body fat wanna be Metrosexuals boys just cannot easily keep up with me and my regular dive buddy.
He is 53 and about runs away from me, and the old man smokes!
I am 6'-1" and 230 pounds. I should get serious some day about losing 30 or 40 of them.

I would not now, or not ever team up with someone who I felt put themselves first.

I only dive, work, play, and drink with those who put the team first.

Just My $0.02.

Chug

 

[Thalassamania]

As MagicChicken so eloquently has provided a scenario for rationale, statistics have verified his story. 70% of all would be rescuers in a drowning scenario are victims of their own actions. A drowning (or in this case OOA panicked diver) victim sees the rescuer ONLY as a platform from which to climb out of the water... you'd be amazed at how expendable you are as a rescuer in such a situation. That's why Rescue Divers are so valuable... they train in approach and how to control the victim in panic.

And the statistics on water rescue have what to do with diving? I can assure you that 70% of the diving rescuers are not victims. What is it that you are trying to say? What percent of folks who run into burning buildings die? And is that not equally applicable to diving rescue risks?

 

[Papa_Bear]

I would question my own integrity if I ran out of air and whether or not I would want to dive with me so why wouldn't I dive with someone who refuses to share air?
Solo Divers don't have buddies and every diver is, in fact, responsible for his or her own life.
Has anyone ever faced panic?

I have and I don't know if I'd want to be sharing air with someone who thinks of me only as a source of air. As MagicChicken so eloquently has provided a scenario for rationale, statistics have verified his story. 70% of all would be rescuers in a drowning scenario are victims of their own actions. A drowning (or in this case OOA panicked diver) victim sees the rescuer ONLY as a platform from which to climb out of the water... you'd be amazed at how expendable you are as a rescuer in such a situation. That's why Rescue Divers are so valuable... they train in approach and how to control the victim in panic.

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Edit/Delete Message

Your 100% correct and don't let the so called know it all bullies sway you in your thinking! I didn't know "puring buildings" were dangerous? They sound kinds cute! It is your air and those that say they will take it at all cost just prove my point! The number one responsibility of every diver is to come out of the water safe and alive!
If you take the attitude that the air in your tank is yours, you will!

A safety stop is not required and should not be misunderstood to be a Deco stop of any kind! If you have to miss it the odds in a no Deco dive of DSC 99.23437% in your favor! In an emergency I will take those odds! It is disingenuous to imply that a safety stop is a required stop! If you plan your profile properly and the last part of your dive is shallow then you have built in your safety stop!

I am trained to save your life even if you panic, so if your good and in control you will be grabbed put under my control given air and saved without a lot of fuss! If you panic I will not be so nice and I will save you from your panic! But I will go home at the end of the day and I hope your training will allow you to do the same!