Would you dive with someone who wouldn't share air if you were OOA?

[scorpenesub]

Hell NO, such selfish divers don't deserve a buddy even...

 

[seaducer]

It appears that you missed the point. Using your gun fight as an example, which is an extremely rare situation everyone still must act as a team. BUT each individual LEO must do their part in preserving their own safety and not just try and rely on everyone else to save your bacon. It's still a team effort but #1 is still responsible for #1.

It’s one of those things that if you’re not one you won’t fully understand.

The same applies to diving. No diver should rely 100% on a buddy. They need to focus more on education and becoming more self sufficient. It boils down to either being sheep relying on someone to protect you or learning how to protect yourself.

So what happens when all of a sudden that buddy isn’t there anymore? Do you still rely on them?

Gary D.

I understand what you are saying. And it applys to diving as well. I am still responsibile for my own safety. I do my best to take care of me when I am diving. Should the need arrise I want a buddy who understands comradere enough to lend me some air or other assistance. It is not a substitute for training, preperation, or common sense and good decision making. It is simply a very effective tool to use in a situation you hope never comes up.

People who through words or actions showed you can't rely on them didn't make it very far in the military. I am sure they don't last as cops either. Well, why should I dive with them?

I do fear our points are flying past each other. Hopefully none of us has to see our theories proven, in diving or anywhere else...

 

[tonka97]

Please explain how my post 122 is a personal attack. I gave him sound advise as to what I thought was happening in the background. It looks like it was good advise cause confirmed there has been some investigating about his comments about being a member of certain organizations. I think he got egg on his face and needed to back track before he got more.

You posted: QUOTE The power of the internet. This type of talk will surely hurt your internet business that you are advertising. I bet there are people right now investigating any professional scuba certs that you may have. If it is proven that you do infact have some surely your responses here will be reported. You may not be wrong in what you say but you have only 30bar at 30meters....its close to being wrong/not right.END QUOTE................................. Suggest that a Private Message to PB would have been preferable to this public excoriation, assuming your post is sincere, and not just a jump on top gang tackle effort.........................Your post is an example of attacking and impugning a poster, instead of discussing the topic...............................To be fair, your post wasn't as personally attacking as some that were deleted by moderator.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Honestly, you should never run out of air, but things do arise that are beyond the divers control. If some schmuck said he/she wouldn't share air with me if I ran out, they wouldn't be diving with me, that's for sure. I think they call it "buddy" for a reason. If they wouldn't share air with you, on the rare occasion you go OOA, What kind of "buddy" is that?

Agreed ...

It's absolutely the case that you should never run out of air. But the reality is that we dive with a buddy for a reason ... and that reason is to provide each other with redundancy in the event that the dive doesn't go according to plan.

Most of the times that I've ended up sharing air with someone, that person was not my buddy ... sometimes it was someone who knew me and figured they could trust me to help them get safely to the surface ... once it was a complete stranger whose own dive buddy had abandoned her because she wanted to turn back and he didn't. What do you do with those people? Me ... I help them. Even if I see a building panic in their eyes or body language, getting them on my air will ... in almost every case ... calm them down to the point where the situation can be dealt with responsibly.

What about other failures? I dive in cold water, and free-flows happen ... even to the best-prepared divers sometimes. In a free-flow, the first thing you need to do is get someone on your gas supply ... then you shut theirs down. Sometimes waiting a few seconds and turning it back on will resolve the problem and you can make decisions accordingly. Other times, nothing helps, and you have to surface. If you've never experienced a free-flow, it's loud, confusing, and potentially a panic-inducing situation. You can't see a thing because of all the bubbles, and you can't hear a thing because of the noise of the free-flow. It's complete pandemonium. The proper approach is to deal with it quickly ... before it reaches a crisis point.

Personally, I don't assume that an OOA is going to result in a panicked diver ... that usually only happens if you hesitate dealing with it. And if it does happen, you're not going to be in "control" anyway ... whatever that's supposed to mean. Either the person is going to jump your arse and take what they need, or they're gonna bolt for the surface ... in which case the chances they're gonna forget to breathe out on the way up are very high, and you're probably going to be dealing with a body recovery by the time you get to the surface.

The best way to be "in control" and reduce the risk of injury to either them or you is to get the diver on your air as quickly as possible. Once they're breathing, the potential for panic goes way down, and you have the best chance of dealing with the situation in a way that gets both of you to the surface safely. The fact is that almost any problem that can occur underwater can be dealt with underwater ... as long as you're both breathing ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Aside from equipment failures, divers WILL run out of air as long they they are certified without being taught anything about gas management.

It seems more than ironic to me that the same person would argue against teaching gas management and at the same time express reservations about donating gas.

Naturally, I agree with Bob, getting gas to an OOG diver quickly and efficiently prevents the fire drill. However, for it to work reliably both divers must be prificient at gas sharing. It doesn't take much looking to see that's often not the case. Rather than consider refusing to aid an OOA diver I'd rather be selective about who I dive with and where.

 

[Hemlon]

I wouldn't dive with a person who refused to air share in an emergency. Geez, would they REALLY just let their buddy die??

No way, Jose.

 

[MCL]

Of course not. While I don't believe that you should rely on that air being there, I also can't see how it is a good idea to dive with someone who basically states that "if I see you having trouble I'm not going to help you", just doesn't seem like the type of person I want to hang out with.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Aside from equipment failures, divers WILL run out of air as long they they are certified without being taught anything about gas management.

It seems more than ironic to me that the same person would argue against teaching gas management and at the same time express reservations about donating gas.

Naturally, I agree with Bob, getting gas to an OOG diver quickly and efficiently prevents the fire drill. However, for it to work reliably both divers must be prificient at gas sharing. It doesn't take much looking to see that's often not the case. Rather than consider refusing to aid an OOA diver I'd rather be selective about who I dive with and where.

Mike, you are by fare been kicked in the head to many times! You are now accusing me of not wanting "Gas management" taught? Will you ever grow up? Stop putting words in my mouth or put yourself in a position to speak for me! This is a basic SCUBA discussion board and you were defending teaching open water divers the rule of thirds! You were defending tech teaching to basic divers and justifying ending the dive with 1000psi in open water. Look it up for yourself! I have never "Expressed reservations about donating gas" just putting yourself in a potential life threating position without the training! BTW to donate implies it belongs to you! And it does! I have said infinitum that you need to asses each situation as it presents itself! And if not trained never approach a panicked diver unless your trained! So please stop telling or impugning the imaginary stranger that you know and aloud to is me! Bashing someone is still bashing even if you think your being cute about it! Mike, give what you know is right a chance to sink in and be man enough to admit it.

My entire primes was from the start was panic kills in open water not out of air unless your not trained to handle the situation! That SCUBA is a safe activity with inherent, but acceptable, risk. That risk goes down with comfort, training, and experience! The rest of the equation is confidence and basic to that is "That your air is yours" and if you share it, it will be on your terms and under your control!

If you dive with a buddy plan in the first place and know what you will both expect of each other. If your buddy is not comfortable or out of reach be ready to react for yourself to save your own life! The ultimate choice to dive is always yours and is not depended on your buddy's choices, because sometimes you might not always have a choice of who your buddy is! Dive to your weakest link and that is your buddy!

Mike I am not attacking you! I want the new divers and the occasional diver to understand and gain confidence from reading these threads. The information someone learns here can make a difference, make it a positive one!

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Its almost like the j valve wîll have to comé back if 500psi alarms,and diver monitoring air is to mûch to ask of a diver.

Gas management is how to plan, your computér alarm can be set.higher for deeper dives.

If you have to threaten a person, to tell a cert agency what they posted, its just saying you are brainwashed to there beliefs.

When gue just started, aj Meyers worked at jarrods diveshop and was taking gue courses.

His old man is rick, he runs a charter, bandito.

His son had his long hose wraped around his neck and he was explaining the gue configuration, on a charter with just the average divers.

As aj was explaining the long hose, rick grabbed his, pulled it tight, as aj was choking his old man says what are you going to do when this happens, and said just keep it simple and everything will be fine, then we went diving.

I laughed half my air out on that with that vision in my head.

Bandito charters is the safest charter you could be on.

If father and son disagree about diving abilty's, and still get along in this world, then why do dive professionals have to act like baby.

Almost all dive instructors are new divers,there opinions are mainly what they were taught not experience.

Just don't get yourself in a OOA situation.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Its almost like the j valve wîll have to comé back if 500psi alarms,and diver monitoring air is to mûch to ask of a diver.

Gas management is how to plan, your computér alarm can be set.higher for deeper dives.

If you have to threaten a person, to tell a cert agency what they posted, its just saying you are brainwashed to there beliefs.

When gue just started, aj Meyers worked at jarrods diveshop and was taking gue courses.

His old man is rick, he runs a charter, bandito.

His son had his long hose wraped around his neck and he was explaining the gue configuration, on a charter with just the average divers.

As aj was explaining the long hose, rick grabbed his, pulled it tight, as aj was choking his old man says what are you going to do when this happens, and said just keep it simple and everything will be fine, then we went diving.

I laughed half my air out on that with that vision in my head.

Bandito charters is the safest charter you could be on.

If father and son disagree about diving abilty's, and still get along in this world, then why do dive professionals have to act like baby.

Almost all dive instructors are new divers,there opinions are mainly what they were taught not experience.

Just don't get yourself in a OOA situation.