Would advanced courses make sense for me?

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I live in Germany and I am neither keen of diving in indoor pools or lakes or cold, dark lakes, nor in diving in a wet- or drysuit. I only dive on vacations, so far I was diving in the US, Thailand, Colombia and the Philippins. In future I will probably dive more often, but not more than one vacation per year. This means I will never reach a certain experience level and that's fine because I enjoy long dives where I see colourful things.... so I am not fond of diving very deep. My deepest dive was about 30m but I enjoy 15m more. My buoyency is ok for someone who dives only occacionally.
I once met a lady who was liscensed as "master- instructor of instructors -superwomen", or smilar. But she also dove only during vactions. I would not want to go that far, because I believe everything you do not do on a regular bases you will forget. So my question is, will I benefit from learning more than my PADI Open Water Diver and if, how far makes sense? Because I do not like all the little steps PADI offers, I like more CEMAS where you can make bigger steps. So I want to decide where I want to go and then do it within one vacation, so the others I can just focus on enjoying the dive instead of going from one mini course to the next mini course....
What is your experience? Which courses are beneficial and which one over the top for only-once-a year- leissure divers?

Most SB posters seem to feel that courses beyond AOW (and perhaps even AOW) are just "money grabs" by shops and agencies and instructors, and do not make you a better diver.
I disagree, but that's not the point I want to make.

Some courses definitely do NOT "make you a better diver" but they may make your diving better, meaning more enjoyable. For example, if you think all the pretty fish are cool, then a good Fish ID course can open your eyes to all the species, their behavior, their habitats, and their interactions. Much more to see underwater if you know something about the fish. Similarly for the corals, the non-fish creatures, and the amazing ecosystem in which you are diving.

So, Yes, take AOW and Nitrox, because they are really today's entry level courses, and consider Rescue, but look for some classes and diving that tell you about the ocean and are not just egocentric to your personal diving skills.
 
For example, if you think all the pretty fish are cool, then a good Fish ID course can open your eyes to all the species, their behavior, their habitats, and their interactions.
My AOW Fish ID course was one of the most valuable classes I have taken, for the reasons listed in your statement above. I could go on for quite a few paragraphs explaining how this all makes your dives more enjoyable and memorable. Yet, Fish ID is one of the most often ridiculed of the AOW options, with cynical posters making statements like, "Fish! Fish! More fish!" to demonstrate their ignorance.
 
My AOW Fish ID course was one of the most valuable classes I have taken, for the reasons listed in your statement above. I could go on for quite a few paragraphs explaining how this all makes your dives more enjoyable and memorable. Yet, Fish ID is one of the most often ridiculed of the AOW options, with cynical posters making statements like, "Fish! Fish! More fish!" to demonstrate their ignorance.
I'm sorry for those who seem oblivious to the wonderful ocean they are in, and characterize a great dive as one in which they had perfect trim and a low SAC rate. Anything that swims is a fish (wrong) and anything that waves in a currents a plant (wrong). All coral is hard (wrong) and all white coral is dead (wrong).
 
AOW and Nitrox. Even more important, in my opinion, would be to take a good rescue class. Not so much to rescue someone else. More often, those are recoveries done by professionals.
A good rescue class will teach you more about preventing problems with yourself and others. It will also increase your situational awareness in every aspect of your diving. You will be more aware of where you are, what is there, and how it affects your experience.
You'll learn more about your equipment and be able to spot little things that, if overlooked, can turn into potentially deadly situations.
If possible, don't take formal classes. Find an instructor that teaches workshops in areas you are interested in. No cert fees. Just the knowledge.
Boulderjohn brought up a great point.
Some classes can be mere fluff.
But others can go way beyond the norm.
Boat Diver? Gets laughs in many cases. Take a class from an actual captain with a 100 ton or better license. that may include handling, navigation, line handling, dealing with currents, and you might get to drive a little.
Photography? I did several workshops with people who actually make all, most, or part of their living as photographers. None was a SCUBA instructor. I did one class with a portrait photographer that gets $600 an hour for family shoots! That was a barter deal. I made out on that and still use things he taught me every time I take a photo.
Fish ID? Not my thing. So I referred those who were interested to an instructor in Florida. Has a PhD in Marine Biology. If fish were my thing, he's the guy I'd travel to see.
Training is valuable IF it's approached with careful thought and consideration for how it will benefit you and your interests.
Another class that is seriously undervalued by many, including some of the instructors that offer it, and definitely the agencies that create it, is Underwater Navigation. So much so that after perusing the offerings from 9 or 10 different agencies, I wrote my own and that was what I taught.
 
Boat Diver? Gets laughs in many cases. Take a class from an actual captain with a 100 ton or better license. that may include handling, navigation, line handling, dealing with currents, and you might get to drive a little.
One of the courses I taught was " Boat Handling" which went a long way in helping some DMs pass their Coxswains course here in Australia, all they needed was 'sea Time' and 'Local knowledge', having a charter boat I could sign any 'Sea time' they did on the course in the log book that is required here before you can do the exam.

I was told not long ago that the 'Sea time' hours have been reduced to now 'sit' the exam for Coxswain, which could explain the 'cowboy skippers' I see now, nothing beats time spent doing it, or just watching it being done as a deckhand at sea.
 
I agree that AOW/Nitrox are foundational and will give you maximal options for the type of diving you want to do.

I’ll go out on a limb and recommend a couple of sessions with a good technical diver to learn proper bouyancy and trim and propulsion techniques. Most recreational dive instruction doesn’t teach this, and I found my diving enjoyment reached a new level when I started to pick up these skills. I say “started” because I’m still nowhere near competent. Being able to hover in place, move forwards and *backwards* and spin your body on an axis without any extraneous movement is just so satisfying.
 
Fintechniques is something that really depends on the instructor and if the diver wants to learn/improve/practise. My open water students swim with a frogkick, or at least something that looks like that, but sometimes not perfect of course which is impossible for most divers. Not that I teach it, but they do and follow what I do. And sometimes they ask and I explain.
Also doing skills not on knees helps very well to learn open water divers bouyancy skills. So if you say you are not bad with it, you still can improve, but also it can improve by just diving and take 5 minutes of a dive to practise extra. Doing a ppb specialty if you have already a lot of dives doesn't sound that usefull for me anymore. Especially not if you are only diving during holidays. This means as you know, you will never be the most experienced diver. I think it is better to practise during the safetystop, etc. This does not cost you expensive time of a fundive, but still will improve your diving.

About the question, what will you learn if you do aow? If you are an experienced open water diver, probably not that much. But a lot of divecenters offer the course abroad for a price not more than 5 fundives. And the theory is not that hard if you have already experience in diving.
I did my aow when I had 55 dives, I already had experience in nightdiving and deep dives (nightdives to 24m were normal for me). I had to show the instructor in a for him unknown lake the 24m for the deep dive (so I was guiding), and the nightdive was just a lot of fun. But he did everything serious as in the theory was stated. So we did navigation (which is probably the most boring part of an aow course, but maybe this will fit in a 20 minute navigation, 40minute fundive with natural navigation) very serious. I could use a compass already well in that time, but swimming in a straight line without compas was not possible (that is for most people impossible), so we tried and figured out that I swim all times more to the right. The lines, squares, did not take more than 10 minutes, then some time for the straigt lines without compass that ended not straigt and rest was draining the tanks as a fundive. The nightdive was just a real fundive. The deep dive same. The others I did were search and recovery (is a lot of fun playing with hoovering stuff from A to B to C to surface), and the 5th dive I don't know anymore as this was for sure just a fundive.
So I did not learn better diving, but it was fun. And I learned how I wanted to be as instructor 750 dives later. I still remember this instructor very well (and sometimes we still have contact). He never wanted to do technical diving, I already was talking about technical diving during my ow course, so also during aow. But we still sometimes discuss things about diving and teaching. He respected me as a diver and student with probably already too much experience for aow. And I respected the instructor as he was not complaigning about what I already did with my ow cert.
But, the most important thing after the course was that nobody could complaign anymore about my deep nightdives as this was now within my certification limit. And that was worth it.

So I would advice you to find a divecenter on a holiday that offers aow (and maybe nitrox) and then sign up. Do the theory at home, and there do the 5 dives of which for sure 4 are almost normal fundives, maybe the navigation is a little bit boring. This will not cost a lot more than 5 normal fundives and then afterwards you are seen as a 'full diver'. This was for me really a difference. No people complaigning anymore that I could not do things (I also have done driftdives on my own as ow diver).

Rescue diver can be usefull, but is not required. You don't get extra privileges in depth, diving without guides, special dives, etc as a rescue diver. And the course itself is really boring in my opinion. ( I also say to others there are better instructors to teach it than I am). You don't dive, it is a lot of ascents, descents and swimming at surface. It is for sure not a thing I want to spent my expensive holiday time on doing this course. Doing it at home in dark, cold murky lakes makes it doable (as the diving itself is not special).
The course can be usefull for sure, but not something to do during a holiday with limited time. It is no fundiving. And from what I read about you as a diver which just fundives in warm waters following a guide, relaxing, enjoying, I don't think it makes sense for you to do.

Yes, instructors are teached to sell new courses and more courses, but sometimes in my opinion you must tell the truth about if it is needed or not so needed. Otherwise the deep diver will be adviced here too after aow, because maybe maybe you want in future to a wreck at 40m. But there is not told that if you want to stay within ndl the bottimtime will be 7-8 minutes max which makes the diveprice sometimes over 1 dollar per breath which is not worth it. Oh and maybe do a cavern course too. You cannot do any caverndive without a guide, but hey, you will learn line protocols. You can do the caverndive without a caverncourse, but you will learn a lot in a caverncourse :wink: And the places where you can dive without a guide in caverns are the places where nobody asks for a cavern or cave card. Also do a boatdiving specialty. As you know, most places with warm water have boatdives. Also do a drift diving specialty, and a wreckdiving specialty. The skills in wreckdiving and cavern are 90% the same with linework, but hey, another plastic card shows you are a better diver. Don't forget to do a photography specialty if you use a gopro from an instructor who don't is a real photographer. This gives you a plastic card which you don't get from a workshop with a real underwaterphotographer. Do the seaslugspecialty, fish identify, smb deployment, etc etc etc.

I wrote this rant as sometimes this is sadly the reality. A real advice ends in trying to sell more than needed. I have had students who asked me during holidays to sign off courses they did not need, but divecenters wanted to sell. As example a normoxic diver who wanted to do recreational diving in Malta. They wanted him to do a boat diver course.
I had to show a nightdiver card when I was already a full cave diver (and as you know, there is nowhere more darkness than in a cave), and they did not want to accept that the cmas 3* card means you had to GUIDE on nightdives, so this was included in the 3*/dm cert. At the end I could buy it for only 100 bucks (real costst for a divecenter are a lot less) without any diving as I already had the experience they said. :wink: :wink: :wink: Another cmas 3* diver needed deep, night and drift to join these dives when he got member of a padi club, a lot of blabla about insurance, but it had only to do with earning more money as a 3* diver can go to 40m or more (60 in this case as it was the older cert).

So I would say with this above that from what I read about your whishes in diving the aow and nitrox are usefull and the rest maybe only if the time is there and the need in future. I don't say other courses are not usefull, but they are in the list of 'can be usefull in future'. And some like photography, biology can only be usefull if the instructor is really interested in it. You don't want to do a photography course from someone who only did the course himself and then paid fee to teach it. For photography sometimes don't look at the pastic card afterwards, but if a card is not possible, the workshop from a real underwaterphotographer will learn you more than buying the card from someone else.

Enjoy your diving and make the right decision for you.
 
Most of us do not know what we don't know. To be a good diver, use less air and not damage the underwater environment, proper buoyancy is one of the best skills you can learn. No matter how good you think you are, a good cavern class will improve this skill and I'd highly recommend it.
i could not agree with this more
 
i read most of the comments but not all

i will go against the trend and say that if people are referring to the padi AOW, i would say it is a waste of time and money unless you plan to advance within the padi system

i agree that some shops now ask for aow, but in my experience they are more interested in how you dive and not what the card says. if you can handle the dive they will usually take you. of course there are exceptions. liveaboards may be one.

i would rather see someone take a full deep diving specialty, maybe along with nitrox and navigation. then you might actually learn something. or a fundamentals class that people take to prep for cavern/cave diving.

perhaps my experience getting padi aow is not a common one. but although i was exposed to do a few things, i really did not gain a lot from it.
 

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