Worst Divers Ever

[VTWarrenG]

brady --

Much appreciated support... the shirt.... really......... is green, even if I wear it in an offensive fashion.

- Warren

 

[tombiowami]

I am not sure I understand the differences being discussed. Would you all be so kind to the "old man" if say it was just a group new OW divers and some guy who had not taken an OW class came up with a 30 yr. old set of gear and joined the group ? Or who had never dove before?

How did or would they have known this guy was as experienced as he said he was?

Say this guy drowned while he was tagging along, could the adopted buddies have been sued? Could someone (the old guys family lawyer) make a case that the trained divers were putting the old guy in danger by letting him tag along? Yep.

Say your local quarry, cave, or wreck was deemed off limits due to one too many deaths and lawsuits and the insurance required became too much.


Tommy

 

[The Chairman]

First off, the color question had nothing to do with the old guy... it was an aside, in that the picture on Warrens profile says green, while the Pugster's moniter (and mine) displays it as blue.

The BIG problems for me are;

1) Ganging up and yelling at the man (verbal abuse)

2) Physically assaulting the man (physical abuse)

If I were the man and had been thus assaulted, I would have been looking for the sheriff.

The old man WAS WRONG for tagging along and being a nuisance. BEFORE I resorted to verbal or physical abuse, I would have sought higher authorities.

The way it reads, it seems that things -might- have been exaggerated for our benefit (check Pug's first response). The Pugster was raising his doubts without calling anyone a liar, which would ahve also been wrong. There are always two sides to every story, and it would be interesting at the very least to hear the OTHER guys take on the situation.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by tombiowami
I am not sure I understand the differences being discussed. Would you all be so kind to the "old man" if say it was...

To clear up any confusion...
(shoot, I'm probably not the one for that.)

IF the events of the story are the issue....
AND the details are accurate as presented....
THEN the *old guy* was dangerous, ect....
AND the *three Amigos* are guilty of assault....

I was trying to deal with another issue....
We DIR divers have an earned reputation for putting everyone else down....
This is not good....
Lately here on ScubaBoard we have had some abusive posts by DIR divers in other threads (IMO)....
We didn't need another *slam dunk the strokes* thread (IMO)....
Since I am DIR what other DIR divers do effects me....
Warren is very openly a DIR advocate....
I confess to highjacking his thread....
Yes the old man was a *stroke*....
dirQuest is a good place to play *Whack~a~Stroke*....
But not ScubaBoard (IMO)....
And I thought I could get that across quickly and painlessly...
Without it being too *out in the open*....
Like that ever had a chance of happening!
(insert ironic statement emoticon)

 

[VTWarrenG]

Would you all be so kind to the "old man" if say it was just a group new OW divers and some guy who had not taken an OW class came up with a 30 yr. old set of gear and joined the group ? Or who had never dove before?

This would have been unacceptable, too -- but in a matter of degree, more acceptable than someone attempting to follow us into the cave.

How did or would they have known this guy was as experienced as he said he was?

We were telling him about our new certifications, since we were so proud to have just finished. We asked the man who his cave instructor was, for "comparison," and he just blinked at us. It was quickly revealed he didn't have any cave cert at all.

Say this guy drowned while he was tagging along, could the adopted buddies have been sued? Could someone (the old guys family lawyer) make a case that the trained divers were putting the old guy in danger by letting him tag along? Yep.

Absolutely -- that's why it got so heated. We refused to be "responsible" for his death. There wouldn't be any proof, one way or the other, that we told the guy he wasn't welcome with us.

Say your local quarry, cave, or wreck was deemed off limits due to one too many deaths and lawsuits and the insurance required became too much.

Several caves and springs are off-limits, legally, to OW divers. At the time, Peacock had no-lights rules for OW divers. I suppose no one considered the possibility that someone might actually attempt to follow cave divers into the cave -- but hey, people find ways around any rule.

NetDoc,

This man had a temper of his own -- he repeatedly got pretty mad at us when we told him he wasn't welcome. He just wouldn't get the point. There wasn't much verbal abuse -- just a lot of repeating "listen, really, you can't come with us, we're serious." As far as physical abuse, nothing was done beyond one buddy's shoving the man away from our table and throwing one half-hearted punch, which missed anyway. We didn't just beat the guy down or something.

Pug,

Yes, the "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all" arugment. At this point, seeing the responses, I wish I'd kept my mouth shut.

- Warren

 

[tubaloo]

x

 

[jimholcomb]

I would have done the same thing and HAVE removed someone from that same site before. It is ILLEGAL in Florida to dive in a cave without proper training and equipment. And if you allow it and he dies - YOU WILL BE SUED BY HIS "LOVING" FAMILY. It's tough protecting someone from themselves so you don't get sued - but it happens.

Pug - The site Warren refers to has this problem arise quite frequently and most responsible cave divers respond accordingly.

For everybody else - I don't know how this thread turned into a chinese fire drill from the original post.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by jimholcomb
I don't know how this thread turned into a chinese fire drill from the original post.

Hi Jim...
Just my personal crusade against the use of the word *stoke* on this board...

Since it was the seventh word in the original post and seven is my favorite number it really got me worked up...

I'm better now.... and the story itself was actually very interesting...

And since it is a recurring problem there I am surpised that they haven't re-named the place Darwin's Sink.

 

[buff]

Is this the "Old Man and the Sea" story that I have heard so much about? Cause as I remember that one was really short.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet....right? that's it right?

I knew it. I just knew it.

 

[VTWarrenG]

buff,

Wasn't "The Old Man and the Sea" a short story about a guy who's fishing, gets dragged off his pier into the ocean by a big fish, and drowns?

What's the relevance?

- Warren