wing lift needed for a NJ Diver? Fresh/saltwater

[tbone1004]

@drk5036 the main problem is every different type of neoprene compresses different. My high end Deep6 and Othree suits compress very little in comparison to my really cheap suits. Sure they will always have some inherent buoyancy, but since every suit is different, and every suit ages differently depending on the specific use case, and there is no point in cutting lift that close, just assume it loses everything and you'll have a bit of a buffer left.
He also mentions wanting to go to larger tanks, which means more lift required for the extra gas, also mentions a hoodie which may or may not be a hooded vest which is usually good for another 6 or so pound of lift, and since he's diving in NJ, that means choppy seas where you want some extra buffer to keep your head high at the surface.

Sure the 23lbs is probably enough, but no sense in cutting it that close since the 35 really isn't going to cause that much more drag. They're about the same width which is what matters.

 

[drk5036]

@drk5036 the main problem is every different type of neoprene compresses different. My high end Deep6 and Othree suits compress very little in comparison to my really cheap suits. Sure they will always have some inherent buoyancy, but since every suit is different, and every suit ages differently depending on the specific use case, and there is no point in cutting lift that close, just assume it loses everything and you'll have a bit of a buffer left.
He also mentions wanting to go to larger tanks, which means more lift required for the extra gas, also mentions a hoodie which may or may not be a hooded vest which is usually good for another 6 or so pound of lift, and since he's diving in NJ, that means choppy seas where you want some extra buffer to keep your head high at the surface.

Sure the 23lbs is probably enough, but no sense in cutting it that close since the 35 really isn't going to cause that much more drag. They're about the same width which is what matters.

Okay, I agree with what your saying.

I bought a 23 lbs wing, but kind of wish I’d just bought the 35 (they’re the VDH wings). I haven’t dove in anything more than A 3 mill with an extra hooded vest so 23 has been fine, but I was thinking about getting a 7 mil to do colder diving. But now I gotta ante up for the suit AND another wing, raising the cost that much more. Not a cheap sport haha.

 

[stuartv]

I will be primarily diving in NJ east coast waters fresh and ocean water. My diving will mostly be in the summer/warmer 50F-75F months dont expect to do any dry suit diving anytime soon and eventually want to move to a single steel tank instead of an aluminum tank. Will probably be rocking a 7mm suit, hoodie and gloves with a steel back plate. Torn between VDH's #23 #35 currently.

I would definitely go with the 35 for the diving you described. If you have any qualms about it being too big and dragging around a flappy bag, don't.

This is a short video of me with my VDH 35 and an AL80 tank, in a 5mm suit. Hopefully this link works. Ignore my flailing around. We were surrounded by sea lions swimming all around us and I was spinning around watching them. Just notice how small and streamlined that wing looks.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=a2NnbHRMRkJRLTdKY05Nd1FjaC1CbUFFMEhfWGx3

The 7 mm is never going to lose all it buoyancy due to compression tho, is it? Has anyone ever measure how much buoyancy is lost? I feel like your estimation is the most conservative bound; you’re basically calculating for if you completely lost your wetsuit but kept your weight belt on, aren’t you?

Not that I necessarily disagree; I think a 30 lbs wing for 7 mm diving is a smart choice. But I feel like if you had a 23 lbs wing and even if **** really hit the fan, I can’t prove to myself you’d really have a problem.

The problem would potentially come in if you hang all your lead on your rig. If you put some or all of it on a weight belt that is not attached to the rig, then no problem.

The wing has to meet 2 different requirements:

- It needs to have enough lift to get you neutral when you're at your most negative - which is at the start of the dive, at max depth. That is when your tank is full (so it's at its most negative) and your wetsuit is at max compression. If you're diving a 120 (just to pick a somewhat worst case), that's 9 pounds of gas. If you're diving a 7mm plus a hooded vest, boots, and hood, it's hard to say how much buoyancy you might lose at depth, but barring you going and measuring it, it's best to be conservative. And, in the OP's case, the question is, will he exceed the lift of a 23# wing. With 9 pounds of gas, if his suit loses 14# of buoyancy, he will be at the absolute max of his wing. Which you don't want. And that is assuming he is weighted PERFECTLY and not even 1 # over weighted. Allowing for the possibility that he might be 2 #s over weighted, and allowing for a (small) safety margin of 2 #s of lift capacity, that would mean you would only be allowed to lose 10# of buoyancy from your suit. I think he could easily lose that much from 7mm with all those extras. So, I think a 23 is not enough.

- Your wing also needs enough lift to float your rig if you need to take it off in the water. If you have a full HP100, an SS plate, and just a few pounds of lead mounted on the rig somewhere, it is going to exceed that 23 # capacity pretty quickly. But, if you keep all your lead on a weight belt, then it's just the tank, BP, and any accessories (e.g. lights and cutting devices) and 23 would probably be enough.

So, like I said, in the OP's case, with the thick wetsuit and possible additional neoprene, he's safest to go with something bigger than a 23. If he wants a VDH, then the 35 is his only option. And it's a damn fine option. With a 35, he'll be set for pretty much any single tank diving he wants, including a big steel tank and a drysuit someday. And, like @tbone1004 said, that 35 is really just fine even for warm water, rash guard diving. It is really nicely streamlined.

 

[stuartv]

Okay, I agree with what your saying.

I bought a 23 lbs wing, but kind of wish I’d just bought the 35 (they’re the VDH wings). I haven’t dove in anything more than A 3 mill with an extra hooded vest so 23 has been fine, but I was thinking about getting a 7 mil to do colder diving. But now I gotta ante up for the suit AND another wing, raising the cost that much more. Not a cheap sport haha.

You could always get the 35 and sell the 23 to somebody who just wants to dive in warm water...