Wilmington Incident - 16 Oct

[DandyDon]

Highland, that is dreadful. I can understand your temptation to feel that way, but it wasn't your responsibility. You offered. I am not going to type the rest of my thoughts on this, but don't buy into any undeserved guilt here please.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I am offering this information as I saw it, after many days of worrying, because maybe it will save another. I know I have made a pledge to myself to be less complacent and more attuned to the other divers on the boat.

Amy told me that morning she had done less than 50 dives. Myself and one other gal each invited her separately to be a buddy, but she declined. She did not want to "hold us back". She wasn't looking for teeth. She planned to stay within sight of the anchor line, and only stay a short while. She did not have a pony. She did not carry a reel. She told me she wasn't carrying a computer, because she did not plan to stay down long enough to deco. Integrated weights I think (she said her BC was like mine). Equipment was found with 0 psi. Equipment was not recovered that day, but coordinates given to coast guard.

If I could do that day over, I would have dived with her and stayed by her. That will probably be the biggest regret of my life. Why didn't I recognize that she needed a buddy?

The last I saw Amy, she helped me out of my gear after my dive, because I was terribly seasick and throwing up. That was just how she was. Always putting the other person first.

So she was not experienced, was diving a weight integrated BC, was solo, and had no redundancy. Does it sound like she ditched her tank on the bottom and tried a free ascent?

When I see people dive like that (ones that I know anyway), I try to convince them to wear a pony bottle. A few years ago, I made a pretty hard effort to convince a certain experienced diver that a pony would be a good idea. The diver got killed 2-3 weeks later, I felt really terrible, but not as bad as if I hadn't tried try to get her to carry some redundancy when solo diving in 100 plus feet.

Why didn't you recognize she needed a buddy? Is it because it is still pretty common to see sport divers do 100 ft solo dives with no redundancy?

 

[DandyDon]

Why didn't you recognize she needed a buddy? Is it because it is still pretty common to see sport divers do 100 ft solo dives with no redundancy?

She offered; she just wasn't pushy about it I guess. I guess sometimes some of us tend to be too polite, minding our own business, when we should tell a person that they are not qualified and equipped for the dive. I suspect you would tell one, but I'm still hesitant.

 

[openmindOW]

I am offering this information as I saw it, after many days of worrying, because maybe it will save another.

Thank you, Highland.

Amy told me that morning she had done less than 50 dives.

Less than 50 total lifetime dives? I'm surprised. She did work full-time in the dive industry, right?

She did not have a pony. She did not carry a reel. She told me she wasn't carrying a computer, because she did not plan to stay down long enough to deco. Integrated weights I think (she said her BC was like mine).

So, it wounds like she was wearing a recreational rig, not doubles. Is that correct? What kind of BC do you have?

It also sounds as if the diver had neither a pony nor a stage bottle.

Equipment was found with 0 psi. Equipment was not recovered that day, but coordinates given to coast guard.

Does anyone know if the Coast Guard recovered the gear?

If I could do that day over, I would have dived with her and stayed by her. That will probably be the biggest regret of my life. Why didn't I recognize that she needed a buddy?

Highland, it is NOT your fault. Please don't feel that you are in any way responsible.

Lots of divers dive NC Meg Tooth dives as, essentially, solo divers.

The last I saw Amy, she helped me out of my gear after my dive, because I was terribly seasick and throwing up. That was just how she was. Always putting the other person first.

We need more selfless people like that.

 

[openmindOW]

Why didn't you recognize she needed a buddy? Is it because it is still pretty common to see sport divers do 100 ft solo dives with no redundancy?

It was not Highland's duty to look for other divers other than her buddy.

She offered and the offer was declined. As Don indicates, pushing it would have been, well, meddling and officious. (There's a special place in Hell for the officious.)

Also, Dumptser, what you may not realize is the background data. Amy worked in the dive op that ran the boat. Indeed, Amy's husband is a boat captain in NC.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Myself and one other gal each invited her separately to be a buddy, but she declined... ...If I could do that day over, I would have dived with her and stayed by her. That will probably be the biggest regret of my life. Why didn't I recognize that she needed a buddy?

I can see where you would be turning this over and over in your mind. I think most of us would be doing the same thing in the same situation (which, to my mind, the possibility is very real). Just from reading what you wrote, it seems like you did recognize that she needed a buddy, and you and your friend did offer, but she declined. I guess the hard thing is, where do you draw the line between offering and "pushing" when the other diver is a mentally competent adult -- and someone whom you may not even have known prior to boarding the boat? Of course now you wish you had been more assertive that she buddy with you, but hindsight is 20/20, and I can see where you would have hesitated to insist on that day. You did try.

I am offering this information as I saw it, after many days of worrying, because maybe it will save another. I know I have made a pledge to myself to be less complacent and more attuned to the other divers on the boat.

I'm glad you joined in the thread because I am definitely going to remember this going forward, although I can still see it potentially being a hard call in real life, with independent adults. But maybe after this I will be a bit more assertive if I encounter a similar situation (though I'm not one of "the experienced divers" on any given boat yet). So I think your post has real value.

 

[ahava]

If I could do that day over, I would have dived with her and stayed by her. That will probably be the biggest regret of my life. Why didn't I recognize that she needed a buddy?
.

Hindsight is always 20/20. You asked, she declined. Its not like asking a drunk person to drive the home and they decline. She was a adult diver in good mental capability and she told you no. If I was planning to dive solo and you insisted that you would dive with me I might have a problem with that. You have to assume that she had the capability to make this decision and you cannot force yourself on someone else. You are there to do your dive, she is there to do hers. And like all of us, who have done these dives before know, these are typically solo dives anyway.
I also read in your stats that you enjoy solo diving and photography. I dont think you would like it if you told me you were going to do a solo dive to take pictures and I said no I was going with you and possibly make it harder for you to get that perfect pic.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

She offered; she just wasn't pushy about it I guess. I guess sometimes some of us tend to be too polite, minding our own business, when we should tell a person that they are not qualified and equipped for the dive. I suspect you would tell one, but I'm still hesitant.

Yeah, I wouldn't try to "make" somebody dive with me and once she was on the boat without any redundancy, then she had probably already made the decision to not use a pony bottle, plus there might not have been one available anyway.

I was on a boat several years ago and the guy HAD a pony bottle, but the second stage was rigged in a stupid manner. I wanted to say something, but declined so as to avoid being a know-it-all.. The next day he had a very bad emergency (solo) was unable to deploy the pony reg and just barely made it to the surface from 110 with a mad sprint to the surface with nothing to breath.

He said he was looking out a tiny black tunnel and was seeing stars when he hit the surface. After that incident, I decided that when I see stupidity, I will express my opinion/suggestion ONE TIME in a forceful manner.

If the diver was entangled in a bunch of reel lines near the anchor, then it seems likely that the tank/bc would have been found there or someone would have noticed a bunch of struggling on their lines? So I am still puzzled by the ditched BC, I have to assume that diching of the entire scuba unit would be associated with an inability to ditch sufficient lead quickly.

This is a big assumption on my part, but from what I have heard so far, I wonder if the disaster could have been avoided if she was wearing a pony bottle and/or an easily ditched weightbelt?

Watching those divers root around in the bottom in the video, leads me to believe that two divers simultaneously engaged in that digging, silt stirring activity would NOT be able to provide reliable buddy assistance. To me, that activity, at that depth would necessitate a pony bottle. A buddy diver ain't good enough unless they take turns digging.

I did notice that people ealier in this thread indicated that a pony was REQUIRED for these dives...So she was not following the SOP and paid the price?

 

[waterpirate]

I think that a lot of us try to mentor the best we can. Make suggestions and comment on gear configurations. The problem is that it is often ill recieved by strangers and sometimes worse by people we know.
If I do not know you I ask questions about what I see to try and get the diver to a place where they start to think about the what if's. If declined I move on, competant adult. If I know the diver "the beatings continue untill their morale improves". lol
This is just a terrible loss and like most dive accidents it leaves us with more questions than answers.
Eric

 

[DandyDon]

I guess sometimes some of us tend to be too polite, minding our own business, when we should tell a person that they are not qualified and equipped for the dive. I suspect you would tell one, but I'm still hesitant.

I guess it'd be pretty difficult to tell a lady who "worked in the dive op that ran the boat, (whose) husband is a boat captain in NC" that she was not prepared for the dive. That'd be the Captain's job maybe. I've had times I wanted to tell divers that on some dives, but then I think about how imperfect I am and revert to more polite suggestions.