Will TDI shift to new cave training model?

[Germie]

I have extremely mixed feelings with required 'trim and bouyancy' certs. It can be usefull for some divers, but for others it is only to take and make money.
Evaluation dives before accepting a student is not bad, most times a good idea, and I always try to do, but sometimes hard if a diver has to travel to caves (like I had to do when I did my cave cert). But on the other hand, nowadays it is easy to make a small video from your diving and sent it to an instructor (valvedrill, helicopter turn, smb, and longhose deployment, maybe backkick). But then, if you can make a video, an 'itt' cert is not needed anymore. The only thing you cannot see is the reaction/awareness of a diver, but that is a point that and can be trained and not everybody find this same important than others.

The problem is that in diving you cannot or are not allowed to teach yourself and the idea that divers need to be taken by hand for every poop and **** they want to try. This results sadly in more and more (especially in recreational diving) certs. But on the other hand, divers don't want to spent time in practising and training anymore, fast and easy is the new way to do. Where shortcuts can be taken, they are taken. Happely, most agencies have options for good skilled divers to skip things and make things required if the diver need it.
But evaluation videos would be a usefull help and can save money and desillusions and too high expetations.
And then the diver and instructor can decide if cavediving can be done in 1, 2 or 3 steps (including or excluding cavern). Of course with the minimimum amount of dives in standards as guideline, and more can be done.

 

[Lorenzoid]

So I could video myself and then edit out the 50 percent that doesn’t look good?

 

[Germie]

First you can most times see if a diver can easy do it or it is hard for him. And second, what about divers who did a 'trim and bouyancy' course, passed and then thought 'I know it all, so don't need to practise anymore'? That divers can loose their skills. There is no difference. Where people can find shortcuts they will do. But there are options to use new technologies like video. That can safe time and money. Nothing more and nothing less.

If you want to start cavediving, then remember you must train and get your skills up to date. For some divers the caverncourse is enough. Others can do till full cave in 1 week.
The 1/3 of gas can be done by diving intro in single tank, ignore intro limits, or do the right course, dive in team of 3 and use your brains.
If you just want the cert, don't start cavediving. So easy it is. And from behind a computer we cannot tell what is best for everybody.

 

[kensuf]

Of course they can lose the skill after taking an Intro to Tech program, but at least they have been shown WHAT should be expected of them and have demonstrated that they are capable of doing it through that program.

Here's the counter. Let's say you have a class of two, both have made a significant commitment in time and money to travel to your location to take the class, but when they show up and you do that first evaluation dive you see that one is ready but the other is hopeless and in need of major remedial work.

Do you kick the bad student out and work with the good student?

Do you hold up the class, stopping the good student from taking the course he wanted, and focus on remedial skills with the bad student?

Or do you try to charge forward on the course with both students even though one is a complete **** show?

Having a "trim and buoyancy course" as a pre-req helps get the students properly prepared and capable of performing the basics that are necessary to be successful in whatever technical path they later choose to pursue.

 

[Germie]

We are going offtopic, but you take money and time from a good diver that is ready for a cave course without the trim and bouyancy cert? Most agencies don't have such a cert as required. I am not against that courses, but I am against that as requirement as for some it is not necessarly and costs extra time and money for the diver. It is easy to say: Ok, you travel to me, you don't have that cert, that is allowed, but if you don't have the right skills on the first day, you have to quit the course. That is safe for both. I have done courses on this agreement, it saved me time and money, but I booked a flight that way that I could have done some extra days if needed as I absolutely wanted to go home with the cert. But I also made an appointment of fixed price for the course and only a few euros extra for extra days if needed so it was not a surprise what the totall would cost. I did not fail, never needed more dives. So it is possible to do tech courses without that basic course. That is my point, don't make it required, but hold it optional, if people don't want to do it, tell them that if they are not good enough they cannot go further.

I normally do an evaluation dive with students, then I know if they can proceed or not. I had to stop 1 time a diver with a fundamentals tech rating as the skills where never practioned after his course. We agreed together to quit as he did not want to practise, he just wanted to dive. So there were not hard feelings.

Maybe I have the luxery, teaching is hobby, so if a diver needs a day extra, we can do. For cave I also have to travel, so I do a day diving before going to the caves. 1 time it was a hmmm, I think not student, but we agreed to try. That diver went back later to do some extra cavedives and then I could certify him for full cave. He did not slow down the other student who was certified directly. The diver was not unsafe, but some aspects where not on the right level. Then you don't have to kick someone out, but you can tell that he maybe will need more time.

It is a hard discussion and never all things will fit and work for everybody. So as optional, but with the but if not, you can teach and nobody can complaign.

Same as some divers can do till full cave at once and others need to stop at intro level first. Or maybe try somewhere cavern first to know if cave is something for them.

 

[kensuf]

You should always do a skills evaluation before a course begins and I am fine with spending extra time if that's needed. The problem I have run into more than once is that people generally overstate how good they think they are in the water and when I have two or more people that are making a significant commitment to take a course, and one of them is not prepared to begin the course, someone goes away unhappy.

And yes, I will let a student test out of intro to tech. If they can perform the basic skills that I expect, I'll take them into more advanced training. If not, they get to sign up for intro to tech or skills coaching or whatever you want to call it.