Will DM be a guide or a babysitter?

[Guba]

 

[SCUBASailor]

Thanks, everyone, for your input. We'll make sure that the DM is aware of what we expect from him, and that we know what he expects from us. It looks like this will be our last dive for the year, so we are really looking forward to it!

 

[iztok]

My post wasn't meant to be me moralizing, but just pointing out that 80ft is different then 60ft in terms of air consumption at the least. It is also below the potential CESA reach. (I assume OW soft limit of 60ft is based on CESA.)

Sure you were comfortable at 80ft because dive went well and nothing got wrong. That is not the issue. Issue is what if something goes wrong? Let's say it is something with your equipment and it starts to freeflow (or something more serious). Do you think your son will be able to help you out or will he panic? What if one would lose weights and you would be shooting for the surface?

I am just saying... being comfortable with a perfectly good uneventful dive is one thing, but knowing what to do if some things go wrong at that depth is important.

 

[scubadobadoo]

We took our AOW classes soon after we did our OW classes because we were going into the ocean and diving off a boat, both of which were different environments than the one we trained in. Our thought was that we since we wanted to have an instructor or DM there for the first few dives anyway, we might as well just take classes.

Just a thought.

That was the same situation and approach my wife and I took. I suggest it.

 

[Johan Broere]

Please take the Deep dive course. Further education is good. There is lots to learn, even after lets say 10 dives.
Oh, sorry, I forgot the 00, so that is 1000.

 

[mbwilliamn]

I'm not being sarcastic. If there is a difference between 57' and 80', and I am being reckless with our safety, I'd like to know. I just don't see how that's the case.

Hey, first kudos on recognizing a dive professional would be beneficial. Most people get into trouble by jumping into an area and conditions they are not familiar with and not having support.

As far as depth, its not a line at 60 or 80 or 100 ft, its an exponential increase in risk as you decend. Narcosis, air consumption rate (do you know your SAC rate?), increased planning, computer/table management (do you really understand what your computer is telling you?), low light, low viz, thermalclines etc etc etc. If you don't know these things, the potential to put yourself in a bad situation without realizing it is VERY high.

Video here is two guys who should be dead...they were only supposed to go to 70 ft. YouTube - Scuba Diving Accident Intervention Bahamas 12/04/08 HD

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

So when is it acceptable for us to go to 80'? We have our own swimming pool and we have spent hours and hours at 6', but I have never considered those to be "dives". We are perfectly at ease in the water (at any recreational depth), and I think we are safe divers. What is the threshold that makes it safe for us to dive at 80' without benefit of a more experienced diver? In our OW classes, we were never instructed that 80' was too deep, as long as we were within the limits of our abilities and training. On one of our checkout dives we descended to 57'. As long as we are safely within the non deco limits, why is 80' so much more dangerous than 57', a depth for which we are already experienced?

I'm not being sarcastic. If there is a difference between 57' and 80', and I am being reckless with our safety, I'd like to know. I just don't see how that's the case.

Hi wjcons,

I don't think you were "reckless" with your safety as long as you were fully aware of your depth, kept a close eye on your gas consumption and time, and were aware of the issues involved with diving at that depth.

When is it acceptable to go deeper (than you went in OW class)? Only you can answer that. There is not set number of dives. Most instructors will tell you when you "graduate" basic OW that you are certified for the conditions and depth you were trained in. Most recommend additional training before exploring more challenging conditions, but I think having a good experienced mentor and taking things gradually is also just fine.

There is a significant difference between 80' and 57' in regards to gas consumption rate, nitrogen loading, onset of nitrogen narcosis for some folks, and a shrinking "escape window" if you are forced to CESA.

Some newer divers don't fully grasp how the risk increases dramatically with depth. That is probably why you'll get the finger-wagging sometimes here on scubaboard. I think it is more productive to explain why going deeper early in your dive career should be handled carefully with full knowledge of the potential risks involved.

Best wishes.

 

[SCUBASailor]

I guess I should have made clear that my son is not a child. He is 17 years old, and we made the decision about this dive together. He is as capable as anyone with our experience in coming to the aid of any diver in distress.

We don't have dive computers yet, so we dive tables. We abide strictly to the tables and monitor our air cunsumption carefully. We both understand the effects of nitrogen narcosis, thermoclines, air management, and yes, I do know my SAC rate. I've measured it several times. I read a few books on diving before I even decided to take the OW class. We may not be experienced, but both my son and I are pretty educated for newbies.

I mention all this in an attempt to show that we are not unaware of the risks of what we are doing, and how to mitigate them. I've read enough horror stories here on SB to drive home just how dangerous this sport can be to a careless diver.

I appreciate the feedback, both positive and negative, and I definitely take the advisories in the constructive manner in which they are meant. Thank you for your input. This place is a great learning tool for folks like us.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Hi wjcons,

Sounds like you are well ahead of the curve for most new divers. I think the tendancy here on scubaboard is to assume the worst, but most folks are trying to be helpful even if sometimes the comments come across as doom & gloom.

Enjoy diving with your son (I dive with wife & 3 kids)!

Best wishes.

 

[Web Monkey]

I'm not being sarcastic. If there is a difference between 57' and 80', and I am being reckless with our safety, I'd like to know. I just don't see how that's the case.

As you go deeper, there's less time for everything, including problem solving.

You use gas faster, which means less available time per tank, the no-deco limit shortens, which means that you may need to surface before your tank is empty, and if you incur a deco obligation, you may not have enough gas to wait out the required deco stop (if you even know how long and at what depth).

Because of increased nitrogen loading, as depth increases, bolting for the surface in an emergency becomes more risky and less of a real option.

Additionally, as you go deeper, narcosis makes you stupider while you have even less time for problem solving (available gas and no-deco limit).

The safety difference between 60' and 80' depends entirely on you and your skills, dive planning and equipment. Nobody can say "You'll die at 80' but not 60'". It's an incremental risk increase, but it is an increase all the same.

Also, I'm not sure how old your son is, but there have been concerns about deep SCUBA diving and bone development in children.

And just to toss another log on the fire, reserve gas requirements increase with depth. If you're on a deep dive with your son and run OOA towards the end of the dive, will he have enough left to get you both to the surface, or will you end up drowning both of you? How about if it were reversed?

An OW SCUBA certification has a recommended depth limit of 60' and I beleive a Jr. OW is 40'.

There are no SCUBA police and there is nothing magic about 80. You can do what you want, however the limits are there to improve your chances of having a safe dive.

Terry