Wild Speculation about ancient Octopi

[klausi]

Hi All,

I wrote a speculative essay about a hypothetical octopus civilization in the Triassic. I don't actually believe that such a civilization has in fact ever happened BUT pondering the question brings up good opportunities to think about cephalopod (octopus, squid, cuttlefish and relatives) evolution. This "Silurian Hypothesis" had been pondered before by geologists, but I add a biological side to it.

The essay is here.

 

[Rich1280]

That was a fascinating read, thank you for sharing. I'm normally into my wrecks and history, but as ideas go that was great and well explained with the inherent limitations.
Bravo!
Rich

 

[agilis]

The correct plurals of octopus are octopods or octopuses. Octopi is wrong, a common solecism.

 

[lowwall]

The correct plurals of octopus are octopods or octopuses. Octopi is wrong, a common solecism.

I agree... Except that English words are created by usage. Logic and history have a hand, but in the end all it takes is enough people getting it "wrong" to make it "right". Otherwise we'd all be able to understand Beowulf, which begins:

Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.

I suspect "octopi" is well on its way being one of those words.

 

[agilis]

I agree... Except that English words are created by usage. Logic and history have a hand, but in the end all it takes is enough people getting it "wrong" to make it "right". Otherwise we'd all be able to understand Beowulf, which begins:

Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.

I suspect "octopi" is well on its way being one of those words.

Like 'gunsel' being taken for gunman, it's ignorance that prevails. The evolution of a composite language like English from Middle and Old English is the result of many influences, not simply usage. Still, words of Greek origin do not use Latin plural structures.

 

[lowwall]

Like 'gunsel' being taken for gunman, it's ignorance that prevails. The evolution of a composite language like English from Middle and Old English is the result of many influences, not simply usage.

English is unusual due to the number of words that have been borrowed from other languages but Old English words still form the core vocabulary we use in everyday life. However changes in how those words are used, spelled, and pronounced render the original forms largely unintelligible to modern eyes and ears.

Still, words of Greek origin do not use Latin plural structures.

Of course they do. Perhaps not for words directly from Greek, but "octopus" is one of many foreign words that came to English via Latin. As a Latin borrowing, early commenters generally felt it should have the Latin ending.

The Many Plurals of 'Octopus'

Which is correct? We'll get into it.

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[agilis]

English is unusual due to the number of words that have been borrowed from other languages but Old English words still form the core vocabulary we use in everyday life. However changes in how those words are used, spelled, and pronounced render the original forms largely unintelligible to modern eyes and ears.

Of course they do. Perhaps not for words directly from Greek, but "octopus" is one of many foreign words that came to English via Latin. As a Latin borrowing, early commenters generally felt it should have the Latin ending.

The Many Plurals of 'Octopus'

Which is correct? We'll get into it.

www.merriam-webster.com

You underestimate the profound effect of French and Latin on the core vocabulary we use in everyday life. Words like profound, effect, and vocabulary. Oktopous is a purely Greek word and pluralizing it with a Latin suffix is vulgar.

 

[lowwall]

You underestimate the profound effect of French and Latin on the core vocabulary we use in everyday life. Words like profound, effect, and vocabulary.

No I don't. The consensus is that 2/3 to 4/5 of the words in the English vocabulary come from other languages, particularly Norman French, standard or Parisian French, and Latin (often via French).

However, most of the words we use in everyday communication come straight from Old English. For example:

Most common words in English - Wikipedia - "According to a study cited by Robert McCrum in The Story of English, all of the first hundred of the most common words in English are of Old English origin,[4] except for "people", ultimately from Latin "populus", and "because", in part from Latin "causa". "

Oktopous is a purely Greek word and pluralizing it with a Latin suffix is vulgar.

We don't use the word "oktopous", we use a version with a latinized spelling. Thus the latinized ending.

You will go mad if you insist on rationality in English spelling. I find it far more interesting to look for the reasons for the irrational bits. If you have a 150 or so hours to spare, I will highly recommend The History of English Podcast (also at all the usual podcast sites).

It's a chronological history podcast centered around language, beginning with the Indo Europeans somewhere on the Eurasian steppe. I'm up to episode 164 which includes the founding of the first English settlement in North America.