BUDMANOK
Contributor
never thought of that I will have to try it.
Wife doesn't want to dive anymore due to botched freeflowing reg incident
- Thread starter Cliffpiper
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never thought of that I will have to try it.
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Cliffpiper
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I understand where all you are coming from. Again though, it wasn't the free flow that freaked her out. It was when she swapped to my octo and felt like she couldn't get a breath. That was what freaked her out and made her surface. A freeflow issue became a OOA issue because she spit out my octo and bolted while not putting her free flowing reg back in her mouth. If I made it sound like the free flow was what made her panic, I didn't convey it well enough. That's my bad.
I know that getting new regs is not necessarily the "answer" to the problem, but she won't dive the regs again because she doesn't like them now. I'm fine with buying new regs. It is what it is. I want her to feel safe and secure with her equipment and she doesn't with those regs now. No biggy. $650 is a small price to pay for her to feel safe and happy.
When I said that there was nothing I could do, I didn't mean it as shrugging it off. Believe me, if you were there, I wasn't just shrugging it off lol. It was most definitely traumatic for the both of us. What I meant was there was nothing I could physically do by the time she pushed off the bottom of the wall and made a hectic swim towards the surface. I will give her props though, the CESA was performed flawlessly with AHHHHHH all the way up. She kept her cool in that respect eh? I try my best to dive as safe as possible. My personal preference.
But yea, it was literally a split second from the time she pushed off that my brain had time to react to try to grab her. By that time she was already 1/4 of the way up and I just wanted to assist her at the surface as I was scared she wouldn't inflate her BCD. I was right in that respect. She didn't. She just tried to kick to stay up so I had to inflate her BCD. When I was in my OW course, the instructors had an issue with a couple people bolting and one guy made it to the surface too. Sometimes, in certain circumstances, stuff happens and there is nothing you can do. If it happened to an instructor that I personally know (and he's a great instructor and a great guy) then I mean, it could happen to anyone eventually. I'm not excusing it, I'm just making a point. I kept my cool the whole time and calmed her down and assisted her properly at the surface. The free flowing reg wasn't an issue. It was when she swapped to the octo that she got scared. In controlled settings she did breathing from an octo flawlessly. But in actual practice in a real event, she paniced. It does need to be practiced and we have some dates set up already for the pool where we will both practice the skill.
Just to clarify a few things.
Happy diving!
I know that getting new regs is not necessarily the "answer" to the problem, but she won't dive the regs again because she doesn't like them now. I'm fine with buying new regs. It is what it is. I want her to feel safe and secure with her equipment and she doesn't with those regs now. No biggy. $650 is a small price to pay for her to feel safe and happy.
When I said that there was nothing I could do, I didn't mean it as shrugging it off. Believe me, if you were there, I wasn't just shrugging it off lol. It was most definitely traumatic for the both of us. What I meant was there was nothing I could physically do by the time she pushed off the bottom of the wall and made a hectic swim towards the surface. I will give her props though, the CESA was performed flawlessly with AHHHHHH all the way up. She kept her cool in that respect eh? I try my best to dive as safe as possible. My personal preference.
But yea, it was literally a split second from the time she pushed off that my brain had time to react to try to grab her. By that time she was already 1/4 of the way up and I just wanted to assist her at the surface as I was scared she wouldn't inflate her BCD. I was right in that respect. She didn't. She just tried to kick to stay up so I had to inflate her BCD. When I was in my OW course, the instructors had an issue with a couple people bolting and one guy made it to the surface too. Sometimes, in certain circumstances, stuff happens and there is nothing you can do. If it happened to an instructor that I personally know (and he's a great instructor and a great guy) then I mean, it could happen to anyone eventually. I'm not excusing it, I'm just making a point. I kept my cool the whole time and calmed her down and assisted her properly at the surface. The free flowing reg wasn't an issue. It was when she swapped to the octo that she got scared. In controlled settings she did breathing from an octo flawlessly. But in actual practice in a real event, she paniced. It does need to be practiced and we have some dates set up already for the pool where we will both practice the skill.
Just to clarify a few things.
Happy diving!
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I do believe you can train a diver to be much less likely to panic. I also believe any diver can panic, given enough bad things happening to them at once. How often do you and your wife practice sharing air? Has she ever breathed from your octo? If not, it's time to start.
My husband and I practice in the pool quite a bit. Sharing octos, buddy breathing ( old fashioned style) while no-mask, donning and doffing gear while air sharing, anything we can do to task load in the pool and increase stress.
Skills practice in 6-10 feet of water on a regular basis is a huge confidence booster.
I also feel classes where you train as a team together would be very beneficial. Check out UTD or GUE, starting with Primer or Rec 1.
As she gains confidence, she will learn that she can solve problems underwater and not need to go bolting to the surface.
My husband and I practice in the pool quite a bit. Sharing octos, buddy breathing ( old fashioned style) while no-mask, donning and doffing gear while air sharing, anything we can do to task load in the pool and increase stress.
Skills practice in 6-10 feet of water on a regular basis is a huge confidence booster.
I also feel classes where you train as a team together would be very beneficial. Check out UTD or GUE, starting with Primer or Rec 1.
As she gains confidence, she will learn that she can solve problems underwater and not need to go bolting to the surface.
cliffpiper, welcome to the experience of posting stories on the internet.
Any time you do this, you will get some good advice, some ridiculous advice, and some posts which are downright critical or even mean. All you can do is read through the information and decide which of it is applicable and useful, and take that stuff off and use it. It's really best to ignore the snarky posts, even though they rankle, because the more defensive you get, the more the snarky people enjoy it.
Any time you do this, you will get some good advice, some ridiculous advice, and some posts which are downright critical or even mean. All you can do is read through the information and decide which of it is applicable and useful, and take that stuff off and use it. It's really best to ignore the snarky posts, even though they rankle, because the more defensive you get, the more the snarky people enjoy it.
Peter_C
Contributor
What you did wrong was not practicing regulator exchanges and air shares on every dive BEFORE the incident. Going to ones own backup should be ingrained into muscle memory. Using someone Else's reg to breathe from and to be the air donator to them sets the scene in motion when something does goes wrong. Drill baby drill!
cliffpiper and wife, I can only imagine how scary the whole ordeal must have seemed to both of you. I think it would have been much better (and have made for a thread with less animosity) if your wife had posted her own story. Maybe she would agree to come into the thread herself and tell us what happened from her own perspective and share with us the lessons she has taken from the incident.
I agree with the notion that the two of you need more "practice," regardless of your greater and her lesser experience. But it doesn't necessarily have to be formal training or even have to be done under somebody else's guidance. The two of you didn't work flawlessly as a buddy team, and that's what I'd focus on in terms of practicing. I tell of all my students that diving is actually fairly easy, and that the main purpose in dive training is to learn techniques for problem-solving underwater so that we avoid the risk of injury that bolting to the surface carries with it. Some of this problem-solving is done by the diver him/herself with the buddy standing ready to help if needed, and some is done with the assistance of a buddy right away, but regardless, the buddy bond is crucial, and it fell apart during your dive. This means it was a failure of the TEAM, not just of the diver who bolted. If you were part of the team (and you were), the team's failure was also your failure. So that's where I'd focus efforts at both of your development as divers.
I agree with the notion that the two of you need more "practice," regardless of your greater and her lesser experience. But it doesn't necessarily have to be formal training or even have to be done under somebody else's guidance. The two of you didn't work flawlessly as a buddy team, and that's what I'd focus on in terms of practicing. I tell of all my students that diving is actually fairly easy, and that the main purpose in dive training is to learn techniques for problem-solving underwater so that we avoid the risk of injury that bolting to the surface carries with it. Some of this problem-solving is done by the diver him/herself with the buddy standing ready to help if needed, and some is done with the assistance of a buddy right away, but regardless, the buddy bond is crucial, and it fell apart during your dive. This means it was a failure of the TEAM, not just of the diver who bolted. If you were part of the team (and you were), the team's failure was also your failure. So that's where I'd focus efforts at both of your development as divers.
Griffo
Contributor
I've talked about this story a number of times, but very early in my diving careeer (days after getting OW) my dive buddy got hung up on a wreck, in a deep dark passage, had her reg ripped out, and couldn't find her octo. I and the DM were in front, so didn't see the incident. Mel admits that she paniced, and would have shot to the surface, if not for the fact that simply wasn't possible. Eventually she found her octo, tooks some breaths, coughed the water out of her lungs, and lived to tell the tale.
I spent the next dozen or so dives frustrated with her wondering why she couldn't seem to relax and enjoy it.
Fast forward to two weeks ago, I had my own incident underwater (posted in this forum). I went for another dive that very afternoon in a deliberate attempt to get back on the horse, but spent the next 10 or so dives, VERY uncomfortable underwater, not enjoying it at all. I can now sympathise with Mel, and your wife, in a way I didn't understand previously.
My point is, take it slowly, slowly try to re-introduce your wife to the joys of diving, and at no point ever push her. Maybe go on some super pretty, super shallow dives to build up the confidence. I also have had a LOT of problems with my regs of late (not due to the regs per se, but the stupid tech who last serviced them) so ignore the fact that the tech tells you that they are all fine - there is no test apart from using them at depth, and techs vary in ability and experience. If your wife wants new regs, and you want her to keep diving, buy them. But just be aware that reg issues are going to happen -in fact are almost guaranteed to happen about 20-30 dives post every service as the seats bed it. What you need to do is build condfidence to a level whereby such an issue simply becomes an annoyance, not an event to promote panic.
My personal advice (crap though it might be) would be to tee up some dives with a good instructor to refresh those skills that might have been glossed over during the OW course. Do some OOA drills, some buddy breathing, some mask clears etc. The point being to get to the point where your and your wifes level of comfort underwater reaches the place where issue become simply things things to deal with, not things to panic about. As they say, stop, breath, think, act. Hell, on my OW course i almost panicked every time I had to take my reg out, now, after only a trivial number of dives, i've had people offer my their alternate because i was sitting there with my reg out for an extended period of time for some reason (such as when I was sitting their rubbing my sore gums after the rental reg cut them up). The point being, practice really does lead to comfort, which leads to an ability to not panic at the slightest issue.
As an avid reader of the accident forum here, it seems that panic is by far the largest and most dangerous thing to deal with underwater, almost everything else is solveable as long as you have the right training and buddy. For me, both GUE and Rescue training have put in me a faith that no matter what, if I am diving with people I know and trust, anything is solveable, as long as we all remain calm, think, and deal with it.
I spent the next dozen or so dives frustrated with her wondering why she couldn't seem to relax and enjoy it.
Fast forward to two weeks ago, I had my own incident underwater (posted in this forum). I went for another dive that very afternoon in a deliberate attempt to get back on the horse, but spent the next 10 or so dives, VERY uncomfortable underwater, not enjoying it at all. I can now sympathise with Mel, and your wife, in a way I didn't understand previously.
My point is, take it slowly, slowly try to re-introduce your wife to the joys of diving, and at no point ever push her. Maybe go on some super pretty, super shallow dives to build up the confidence. I also have had a LOT of problems with my regs of late (not due to the regs per se, but the stupid tech who last serviced them) so ignore the fact that the tech tells you that they are all fine - there is no test apart from using them at depth, and techs vary in ability and experience. If your wife wants new regs, and you want her to keep diving, buy them. But just be aware that reg issues are going to happen -in fact are almost guaranteed to happen about 20-30 dives post every service as the seats bed it. What you need to do is build condfidence to a level whereby such an issue simply becomes an annoyance, not an event to promote panic.
My personal advice (crap though it might be) would be to tee up some dives with a good instructor to refresh those skills that might have been glossed over during the OW course. Do some OOA drills, some buddy breathing, some mask clears etc. The point being to get to the point where your and your wifes level of comfort underwater reaches the place where issue become simply things things to deal with, not things to panic about. As they say, stop, breath, think, act. Hell, on my OW course i almost panicked every time I had to take my reg out, now, after only a trivial number of dives, i've had people offer my their alternate because i was sitting there with my reg out for an extended period of time for some reason (such as when I was sitting their rubbing my sore gums after the rental reg cut them up). The point being, practice really does lead to comfort, which leads to an ability to not panic at the slightest issue.
As an avid reader of the accident forum here, it seems that panic is by far the largest and most dangerous thing to deal with underwater, almost everything else is solveable as long as you have the right training and buddy. For me, both GUE and Rescue training have put in me a faith that no matter what, if I am diving with people I know and trust, anything is solveable, as long as we all remain calm, think, and deal with it.
danpass
Contributor
I was extremely comfortable with all the skills both in pool and open water but only because I was extremely comfortable in the water.
On high school swim team I was a diver. I was a Water Safety Instructor and lifeguard. I would freedive to 30ft.
Generally just very comfortable.
I would start with getting very comfortable.
On high school swim team I was a diver. I was a Water Safety Instructor and lifeguard. I would freedive to 30ft.
Generally just very comfortable.
I would start with getting very comfortable.
I think this happens more than we hear. Folks get certified and go diving and dont delve into accident analysis. A freeflowing reg, a mask lost, a burst disc blows, a BC bladder malfunction, an lp inflator stuck open, a weight belt falls off, thats the main ones but taking time to practice these what ifs will make it easier if it really happens. How about a roll off? I had one dropping back down from an air pocket with a single tank once. No air from my backup either, oh yeah that was fun. Emergency procedures should be anticipated and practiced when out doing otherwise fun shallow dives together. Give her some time she may come around.
Clifpiper, an interesting point you made was that she did not panic and bolt until she tried to breathe off of your octo. I know you said that your octo was "meh", and that she felt like she couldn't get a breath. While this feeling may have been caused by the stress of the situation, have you checked out your octo? Is it adjusted properly? Have you tried breathing off of it at depth? I check mine out this way occasionally just to make sure it works like I expect it to. A lot of times we get our regs serviced, and only check our primary, forgetting about the octo. Also, as someone else has pointed out, maybe get a better reg for use as an octo. I use a scuba pro g250 as my octo, many still use them as primaries. Kudos to you for posting this, taking the shots as well as the lessons learned. This is why After Action Reports (AARs) are used by many professions.
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