Widow sues medical doctor and training company

[fmerkel]

Even this group, all divers (I assume) do not agree on parceling out the responsibility. Of course, we don't have all the facts. In reality, no one will ever know all the facts. But even if we had a LOT more info we would not agree. We're just having fun with it. In the area there is very little 'justice', there's just a lot of opinions, my own fully included.

The case really has 2 objects: 1. Retribution - the wife is distraught and wants some kind of justice as she sees it for this wrong done to her. 2. Money. Obviously for that you go for the pockets, meaning either income or insurance. Methinks lawyers must own the insurance industry unbeknownst to all of us. They have certainly screwed up the legal system, so why not?

 

[Shotmaster]

The wife is responsible 100%, she bought the scuba lessons! Case closed. I still believe she wanted him to check out of the gene pool.

 

[kr2y5]

Since partitioning responsibility seems to be a dead end, how about a different spin on things... what actionable insights can be drawn, and what could have been done better that applies to more than just this particular case? I don't remember all the posts, but I vaguely remember someone suggesting the doctor probably not reading the complete medical form, so Idea 1: Forms should require doctor's signature on every page (if they don't already). What else?

 

[undrwater]

Money (and who gets it) is the corrupting factor, is it not?

Does everyone have personal responsibility for something, or is it just victims we complain about not taking personal responsibility.

Had the signing doc taken some personal responsibility, the dentist and his wife may not have gotten away with their attempt at an insurance grab.

 

[fmerkel]

Have you read the whole damn form? It is legalese and it sucks. My physician has never read it. I've read it once and you would have to pay me to read it again. It's almost as bad as the junk every website and software manufacturer/distributor associates with their products. No one reads them, you just click [accept].

BTW, the case I sat on, a waiver had been signed. Waivers are kinda, sorta, maybe useful. But if someone decides to sue, waving a stack of signed waivers in front of them is absolutely no deterrent.

 

[undrwater]

Have you read the whole damn form? It is legalese and it sucks. My physician has never read it. I've read it once and you would have to pay me to read it again. It's almost as bad as the junk every website and software manufacturer/distributor associates with their products. No one reads them, you just click [accept].

So doc doesn't have to take responsibility because it's too hard or too much work?

YOU also have to take responsibility for your agreement to software licenses. You've probably never run up against a problem by just clicking [accept], but others have.

 

[fmerkel]

What I was pointing out is LAWYERS are part of the problem. Of course they wouldn't be such a problem if people wouldn't always be hiring them for stuff like this. This is a system that is in a very bad cycle feeding on itself because people do not take responsibility. Sure, stuff happens, but you have to be a complete idiot to not know there is danger is scuba.

The man is dead. Grieve. Move on.
There will be no justice here. There will just be more grief, yet more grief, and yet even more grief. It will last for years. These cases go....on....for.....ever.

 

[uncfnp]

As these forms go I actually think, from the medical providers perspective, it is one of the better ones.

There is a clear paragraph on the need for a discussion between the diver and the provider...

"The potential diver and his or her physician must weigh the pleasures to be had by diving against an increased risk of death or injury due to the individual’s medical condition. As with any recreational activity, there are no data for diving enabling the calculation of an accurate mathematical probability of injury. Experi- ence and physiological principles only permit a qualitative assessment of relative risk. "

It then stratifies the risk and then gives specific conditions and the implication involved with each in the decision to dive. Like all such forms there is a judgement call but at least this release does have specific guidelines.

And miracle of miracles there is even a number to call (DAN) if the provider has a question. I have never seen this option for consultation on any other medical release.

 

[drrich2]

Have you read the whole damn form? It is legalese and it sucks. My physician has never read it. I've read it once and you would have to pay me to read it again. It's almost as bad as the junk every website and software manufacturer/distributor associates with their products. No one reads them, you just click [accept].

So doc doesn't have to take responsibility because it's too hard or too much work?

YOU also have to take responsibility for your agreement to software licenses. You've probably never run up against a problem by just clicking [accept], but others have.

Next time you're at a primary care Physician's office, notice the office setup as they take you back to an exam room. It's fairly likely there's a busy waiting room, often with people who've waited past their appointments and some have serious health issues. There's the ever unpredictable 'no show' rate for which you might overbook some to compensate, and the risk of emergencies & other scheduling setbacks. Notice there might be 4 exam rooms with charts in the door for a Doc. A Nurse takes vital signs, gets the main reason for the visit, the Doc. grabs the chart off the door, goes in, does a focused exam & interview and is out in 15 minutes or so? Time to dictate a progress note (with the proper components to justify a billing code, of course), maybe write a prescription, and move on to the waiting people.

And most such Doc.'s don't dive. Just like most Doc.s don't have 1st hand experience at a lot of the jobs they're hit up to clear patients to do. Often if the patient's in reasonably good health and affirms his/her ability to do the task at hand, if the Doc. sees no clear contraindication, he/she may sign off on it.

Now look at that form. If it's written to suit lawyers (by transferring liability form the company onto the Doc., for example), it's probably got a lot of content. How long would it take to sit down & actually read that? What are the odds this Doc. is going to do that?

I get that legally speaking, none of this may matter. Reminds me of that line by Jack Nicholson's character, "You can't handle the truth!"

I wonder what the % rate amongst signed off dive clearance medical forms were actually read in their entirety by the caregiver (Physician or Nurse Practitioner) signing off?

Richard.

 

[undrwater]

I don't believe the lawyers are the problem. Money tends to be the common denominator. I do get your point though, and for the most part agree with it.