Why the Compass on the Left Arm?

[ucfdiver]

If someone never intends to have a DPV, though, then it's not really beginning with the end in mind, since that isn't the end point. And if it were really about beginning with the end in mind, why aren't dry suits required equipment? Or as a more extreme example: rebreathers. If someone takes Fundies in a rashguard, then later on goes into tech diving and switches to a drysuit, that right there is a lot to learn/unlearn.



But what benefits? The only benefit is for divers with scooters, or people that have massive bottom timers that take up the whole arm. Since neither of those apply to a lot of people, there is no benefit except, "Well, if you DO someday go to use a scooter, you don't have to get used to the compass on the other side." Maybe that is a worthwhile argument to some, but it doesn't win me over.



Why is this problematic on the right?

I think the biggest question I have is: Why does it matter? Why should a configuration be blindly followed if the individual has something that works better for them, and it poses no safety or efficiency problems if changed? For team diving, it's great if everyone is on the same page, and using the same procedures ... but only for the important stuff. Long hose is important. If one GUE member was using a 7', and the other using a 2', obviously there is an issue. But which arm you choose to place your compass on has 0 perceivable effect on your teammates. So why would people get their wetsuits in a bunch and say you can't take a GUE class like that, that it isn't DIR, etc?

I can relieve a lot of your fears-- GUE does not make you sign a legally binding contract that you will never, ever, change anything from what they told you. If you want to wear a compass on your right arm, Jarrod isn't going to track you down and yank your certification.

If I'm gearing up for a shore dive with another GUE diver with an empty wrist, I know they forgot their compass. If I'm in the ocean and see someone's right pocket is completely empty because it's lying flat, I know there's a SMB missing. GUE heavily standardizes every aspect of training, maybe more than needed, maybe not. I've dove with GUE divers from the NE, Washington State, California, Texas, Canada, Ireland, Portugal, Mexico, Arizona, Florida, Virginia, and likely more destinations than that. No hiccups related to different procedures, hand signals, or gear. If that luxury is worth standardizing, then standardize your diving. If it's not, don't-- no one is going to chase you down.

Why isn't a 5' hose DIR? GUE's website states that the long hose can range from 5' to 7' and that for open water 5' is often used. 7' is only suggested for overhead dives. Or is the Philippines diving you're talking about overhead?

That article is fairly dated. 5ft hoses aren't common in the community, even though they meet GUE's requirements for recreational dives. I don't think I've ever seen a GUE diver aside from really short people dive a 5ft hose.

 

[rjack321]

That article is fairly dated. 5ft hoses aren't common in the community, even though they meet GUE's requirements for recreational dives. I don't think I've ever seen a GUE diver aside from really short people dive a 5ft hose.

Every GUE and "DIR" person I know has at some point tried or borrowed a 5ft hose. Almost universally they are not liked because you can't "hook" them under a canister light or knife sheath, nor tuck them into your waist band. So the hose ends up moving all over the place and people decide its not worth having a shorter hose that can't be nailed down somehow and they go back to a 7ft hose.

Been there, done that and its not worth saving 2ft of hose for the hassles it ends up creating, even in OW.

Regarding the compass, you just seem to be in the mood to argue Vegan. So I won't repeat the suitable answers you've already been given at least 6 times.

 

[TSandM]

I actually find a 5' hose routes very well if I'm not using a can light. It's just the right length to go under my arm, across my chest, and up around the back of my neck.

GUE used to approve 40" hoses for simple open water diving, and 5' or 7' hoses for other applications. Some time ago, they decided it was just simpler to standardize on a single hose length that was suitable for all purposes, so the 7' hose is de rigeur now.

James' point is the key one. If we are all the same, it is incredible easy to spot anything untoward or not as it should be, and in any kind of exigency, managing your buddy's gear is simple because it's the same as your own. How valuable that is to you depends on your own personal approach to diving and perhaps also on the type of dive you are doing. I doubt there are very many GUE divers who have never deviated from the full technical gear setup when doing a far simpler dive.

 

[Diver0001]

There should ALWAYS be a reason. You may not agree with the reason, or agree with the decision, but there IS a reason. Sometimes, the reason is, quite honestly stated, that there were several ways to do something and each had its advantages and disadvantages, but one had to be chosen so that standardization would be maintained. This is pretty much the case with running the long hose under the light cord, for example. It is entirely true that, if you don't value standardization, some of the nit-picky points may annoy you, but JJ has said he would rather see a team in a standardized, non-GUE setup, than not standardized. Consistency is one of the touchstones of the GUE system of diving.

Agreed. (and btw, I'm *so* happy to have you back!). What I was saying above, however, is that the reasons can--and do, regularly--change over time but that the configuration generally does not. That leads me to believe that the reasons are not as important to the founders as the configuration, as long as people accept those reasons and do what they are told.

I know you don't like to hear this but I don't think it's easy to get around this conclusion if you look at how the reasons have evolved since 1995 but the configuration has not.

To be clear, I do *not* want to draw the system into doubt. The system is what it is and I personally believe that as systems go, we, as divers, do not have another that comes even close in terms of being coherent.

But I am drawn to state the obvious (and yes, I did see "Rush" and maybe I'm taking a little of Nikki's lead here... btw, if you want to see how fast an F1 car *really* is, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tFbIuLNSEQ)

R..

 

[ucfdiver]

I know you don't like to hear this but I don't think it's easy to get around this conclusion if you look at how the reasons have evolved since 1995 but the configuration has not.

If you exclude SM and CCR from scuba as a whole, what non gimmicky adjustments have been made to ANY scuba system in the last 20 years?

It's my opinion that the longer someone goes using a system, the more advantages one will discover. Look at financial advice. When telling a young professional to always fill their 401k, typically you use employer matching as an example of how "you're throwing away money not doing it". Then later down the road they learn that not only does employer matching come into play, the tax benefit is huge too. Then they learn that it's also somewhat of an emergency fund in a low interest loan that you pay back to yourself. Beyond that it's a good tool to get them motivated in learning about investment allocation, and by researching that they learn how to start a mutual fund, too. All of those reasons are usually learned AFTER they're convinced to start saving.

 

[rjack321]

I actually find a 5' hose routes very well if I'm not using a can light. It's just the right length to go under my arm, across my chest, and up around the back of my neck.

Yet I don't recall seeing you using a 5ft hose with me ever

(I wouldn't care if you did though, knock yourself out)

 

[TSandM]

I think the only time I've done it, Richard, is diving on Maui. I rarely go without my can light, and most of the times that I do, I regret having done so (like our recent Philippines trip).

 

[Vegan Shark]

Could the compass position have something to do with signalling?

If the compass is on the left, and a diver points to the left wrist, then it is clear they're communicating about navigation. If the compass was on the right beside the computer, then it's not immediately clear if they're communicating about depth or navigation.

Sound plausible?

 

[lv2dive]

People have provided half a dozen reasons reasons they are aware of, for wearing the compass on the left wrist. At some point, one has to accept those answers as the reasons or ask Jarrod or another member of the training council.

 

[Vegan Shark]

Wasn't talking about the "official" reason with regards to signalling, just a practical reason, and wondering if others agree. I've never signaled to my compass, so no idea if it would create confusion when beside the computer.

I accept the official reason of the scooter motor affecting navigation if both are in the same hand, and that DIR seeks to have a configuration that works with all styles of diving, so suggests the same placement even for those not using a DPV. I don't really think it suits my personal diving goals, but I see the point and can accept that.