Why the Aversion to Read the Instructions?

[Lorenzoid]

I am a software engineer with 30+ years of experience, and am also formally trained as both a technical instructor and somewhat less formally trained as a technical writer. I am appalled at the poor manuals for dive computers, and also at the inane user interfaces - even with all my experience it still took me dozens of hours of poring over my DC manual to figure out when I should hit the mode button vs mode + select vs holding mode + select for 2 seconds. I have used this computer on over 100 dives and still occasionally have to futz (technical term ) with the buttons to get to the screen I want.

It shouldn't be that difficult to have a non-software professional diver read a manual before a manufacturer decides to release a new DC to ensure it makes sense! Perhaps even better would be to get a diver to work with the U/I team to design a usable interface in the first place - maybe one that wouldn't even require reading the manual!!!

Just my opinion, and in absolutely no way represents the opinions of anyone else.

Someone needs a Shearwater Petrel for Christmas. Just look at the manual here.

 

[Storker]

Nope, then CMAS* is not equivalent to PADI OW if this is the case.

A common meme here on SB is "that there isn't any scuba police". Although not totally true, it's quite true.

For all practical purposes. CMAS 1* and PADI OW are equivalent. A PADI OW diver is certified to dive, to a recommended depth not exceeding 60' (18m). A CMAS 1* diver is certified to dive, to a recommended depth not exceeding 20m (65'). These days, freshly certified divers are told not to exceed their recommended depth. Some follow that, some don't.

A commercial diving op in a typical tourist destination may restrict the type of dives offered to their patrons depending on the patron's certification level. Or they might not. In other areas of the world, the practice varies, to put it mildly. In our club (non-commercial, Nordic country) we don't ask people about their certs. As long as they have a cert from a recognized agency, they're allowed to dive with us, although as my club's safety officer I encourage our members to keep an eye on new members and tell me if they seem competent or not. If not, I'll probably have to intervene. However, we assume - by default - that our certified members are capable to dive, and that they're capable to determine the level they can manage. IME, that's also the case for commercial ops around here. I have the impression that things may be different in other parts of the world where non-commercial club diving is the default, though. But generally, an environment where a CMAS 1* diver would be restricted, a PADI OW diver would probably be restricted just as much.

Bottom line: attitudes and practices vary too much around the world to support your claim.

 

[AdivingBel]

Bottom line: attitudes and practices vary too much around the world to support your claim.

It was the prior poster that was making the claim about CMAS1* and PADI (I don't claim to know about CMAS) . I'm just stating that PADI OW is certified to 130 ft. If PADI certs are different (not just treated differently) in different places, that's good to know. I hadn't heard that yet (I would be interested in seeing the PADI manual documentation). As far as dive ops applying further depth restrictions, I said they may not they will (again their boat, their rules). I'm sure that varies upon location.

How diving is conducted around the world is very interesting and it adds good info to the discussion (in fact it is key to those of us that like to dive travel). I know this PADI OW depth restriction/recommendation is such a "dead horse." It just seems important to clarify for "basic discussion" & "new divers" the difference among recommendations, standard practice, and actual certification critera.

 

[Storker]

I don't claim to know about CMAS

I do, since our club is CMAS affiliated. And also PADI, with whom I personally certified.

EDIT: and also other agencies, like BSAC, GUE, IANTD et al. As my club's safety officer, I think I should have a half-decent idea about the competence of our members with their diverse certifications, and I try to do so.

---------- Post added December 15th, 2015 at 08:45 PM ----------

Basically, in a non-litigious, fairly libertarian society where people are assumed to be responsible for their own actions, it wouldn't matter whether the diver was certified PADI OW, CMAS 1* or BSAC OD. They're pretty much equally (in)competent.

In a regulated society with a scuba police, it probably wouldn't matter much whether the diver was certified PADI OW, CMAS 1* or BSAC OD. They're pretty much equally (in)competent.

In a litigious society, anything goes. It would probably depend on whether or not the op was willing to recognize anything other than a PADI cert.

 

[AdivingBel]

Storker, not questioning your cred in the least. I've read enough of your posts to respect your knowledge and experience. I've just seen this 60/100/130 for PADI OW/AOW/Deep restriction stated so often as fact rather than recommendation or standard practice. It should be made clear to New and basic divers the difference. You may want more training to go below 60 ft., but with PADI you don't NEED more certs.

If you're interested in dive travel you'll want AOW & nitrox certs for ease of travel, but that is a different issue.

 

[Storker]

You may want more training to go below 60 ft., but with PADI you don't NEED more certs.

You may want more training to go below 60 ft. (alternatively, 20m), but you don't NEED more certs. However, the op may or may not require them.

As I've said before, the agency is irrelevant.

---------- Post added December 15th, 2015 at 09:28 PM ----------

If you're interested in dive travel you'll want AOW & nitrox certs for ease of travel, but that is a different issue.

It sure is. Which is why I took AOW and am happy I certified with PADI, since it's the one agency that probably will be recognized in most places around the world.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm just stating that PADI OW is certified to 130 ft. If PADI certs are different (not just treated differently) in different places, that's good to know. I hadn't heard that yet (I would be interested in seeing the PADI manual documentation). As far as dive ops applying further depth restrictions, I said they may not they will (again their boat, their rules.

How true any of this sort of thing is depends upon how you interpret the wording. Strictly speaking, the part in black is not accurate.

PADi certifies divers and the RECOMMENDS depth limitations for their dives. That is all it is able to do. It cannot enforce those recommendations anywhere in the world because it has no authority for that enforcement anywhere in the world. It has the authority to restrict the depths done in training dives, but all it can do if an instructor violates those limits is retrain, suspend, or expel the instructor, depending upon the severity of the violation.

PADI RECOMMENDS that OW divers limit depths to 60 feet, AOW divers limit depths to 100 feet, and ALL divers without appropriate additional training limit depths to 130 feet, but if divers feel like exceeding those limitations, there is nothing they can do. Local governments can make such rules, and local operators can make such rules, but no agency has that power. OW divers, even brand new OW divers, regularly exceed 130 feet under operator supervision at the Blue Hole in Belize. Because of that, PADI sent an open letter essentially begging that area to establish rules against it. When I dived off of Andros Island in the Bahamas, the dive operator there regularly offered OW divers the chance to go to 150 feet on wall dives.

 

[AdivingBel]

Thanks boulderjohn, point taken.

Storker, I wasn't singling out PADI only limiting my statement to what I was familiar with. I understand other agencies & locales may do things differently.

 

[tech_diver]

Reading manuals...



In the late 1990s, some buddies and I were doing a tech/deco dive in a deep lake. We planned our deco schedules, gas usage, back up plans, etc.
We were carrying computers as backup depth/time instruments but were using deco schedules planned from tables. During the dive, the computers went into deco as expected but a couple of divers had the old Orca Skinny Dipper computer. The Skinny Dippers were going crazy with a flashing red LED and a strange blinking reading we couldn't understand. The segmented digital display read, "dn 06". We puzzled over the strange reading which cleared upon ascent and after the dive hypothesized that maybe it was a pressure group reading or some theoretical compartment saturation.
Finally, I read the manual. If you turn the display right side up, 'dn 06' becomes 'go up'.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was doing a series of advanced instructional dives covering different dives with different people. Everyone did every dive of the day, and on each dive I was acting as an instructor for some, and the others did their own thing at about the same time. At the end of one dive, I reached the surface with my students at the same time the others in the group came to the surface after their dives. One of them immediately said his computer had started acting strange on the dive. It has given some letters he couldn't remember, and it hat started counting UP the minutes in the NDL area instead of down. Now it was saying "ER." What was that all about?

I said it was all about the two of us going back down for a while. We went to 20 feet and hung out for about 15 minutes. When we were back on the surface, I had him breathe off one of the oxygen deco bottles I had with me while I explained about how his computer is supposed to guide him through unplanned decompression stops. He was fine--luckily.