Why SPG on hip and not arm?

[PfcAJ]

It has been passing rare that I've reached back and found it not there. But trust me ... it was never gone, in everyone of the four or five occasions that my SPG was not safely and neatly tucked into the small of my back, it was still attached to the end of it's hose making me look foolish by dangling.

Thats why. Its real cute in OW, but when you're unaware of your SPG location and its dragging through the silt in a small section of cave, that becomes a problem. Not because its a danger to you, or your buddy, but because you're damaging the cave.

Just clip it off and those passingly rare occasions become nonexistant. Its not rocket surgery...

 

[Thalassamania]

Thats why. Its real cute in OW, but when you're unaware of your SPG location and its dragging through the silt in a small section of cave, that becomes a problem. Not because its a danger to you, or your buddy, but because you're damaging the cave.

Just clip it off and those passingly rare occasions become nonexistent. Its not rocket surgery...

I do not cave dive, so adopting something that would only be of advantage in a cave seems a bit over the top. I promise you, if I do decide to cave dive, I'll take your advice,

I'd estimate that I've checked an SPG, maybe 50,000 times and found it dangling less and a handful of times That's on the order of 10^-4, a level of failure likely to be comparable to the number of times that people forget to clip it or that bolt snaps fail.

 

[PfcAJ]

Fair, but you do reef dive, and while I don't know you, its probably reasonable to say that that you visit wrecks on occasion. Do reefs not have fragile corals? Do wrecks not? Do both reefs and wrecks not occasionally have mono line thats pretty much invisible?

Really, you could eliminate the situation all together, and even go as far to help others eliminate the same problem by suggesting a reliable alternative (clipping it off). Its good for every sport diving application (tech, cave, wreck, 'breather, reef, river, etc).

Clipping off - No disadvantages listed thus far

Stuffing - disadvantages

Therefore, its fair to say that by clipping off the SPG, you cover yourself in a wide range of environments while helping to preserve that environment and potenially eliminate a snag point.

 

[Bismark]

Hi Thal,

I think since you want the DIR answer we need to start with at least one of the DIR premises. I believe there is an actual educational concept here with a specific name, but I can't remember it at the moment. Essentially, you adopt a procedure and application that will still be applicable when your action becomes much more complex and the environment becomes much "richer". In essence, you adopt an "open ended architecture" that will not back you in to a corner down the road when you add levels of complexity. What will work at the most complex level is what you apply at the beginning. When we look at the "end" result of a dive involving multiple stage bottles, leashes, scooters, etc, you start to see where your approach of tucking the spg behind your back starts to become problematic. For example, one or more leashes attached to your left d-ring would, I believe, cause some issues in finding a SPG tucked in behind your back if that SPG was not securely fastened to a known location. Also, envision looking for your SPG while on a bigger dive using a scooter and having to search for it, even for a little bit. You can't come off the trigger for whatever reason, (current, keeping up with buddy in limited viz, etc) and you need to check your SPG. You have trained from day one and built muscle memory that lets you effortlessly reach back, while still on the trigger, find the SPG, bring it forward, check gas, and keep going. No question as to where your SPG migrated to nor is there any chance it has moved.

You can make a good case for someone with the experience we have of doing just about anything with equipment etc. However, the entire premise of the DIR concept is that we have a standardized way of doing something and everyone does it that way to make things more effecient and safer in challenging environment. To achieve this end, we have to start at the beginning with an OW diver and start with the primary building blocks and work forward, always keeping the end in sight at the same time. Unclipping an SPG and learning how to manipulate it from a standardized location is part of that process.

I agree that individually, you can take parts of the system and look at them seperately and cut and hack at them. However, I think we need to keep in mind these procedures ,etc., are intended to work as a system and they are not always intended to be the absolute best choice for everybody, everytime in every environment when viewed in isolation. The net result is a system that works better than any sum of parts.

Hope that helps.

Now get your lighter, your scissors, and your cave line and tie off that Bolt snap to your SPG before I have to come to Hawaii and dive with you...............wait a minute.........

 

[lamont]

Hi Thal,

I think since you want the DIR answer we need to start with at least one of the DIR premises. I believe there is an actual educational concept here with a specific name, but I can't remember it at the moment. Essentially, you adopt a procedure and application that will still be applicable when your action becomes much more complex and the environment becomes much "richer". In essence, you adopt an "open ended architecture" that will not back you in to a corner down the road when you add levels of complexity. What will work at the most complex level is what you apply at the beginning.

i believe you're thinking of the "law of primacy".

another thing about the SPG being clipped off is that it makes it very easy for your buddy to do a sneak peek at your gas.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hi Thal,

I think since you want the DIR answer we need to start with at least one of the DIR premises. I believe there is an actual educational concept here with a specific name, but I can't remember it at the moment. Essentially, you adopt a procedure and application that will still be applicable when your action becomes much more complex and the environment becomes much "richer". In essence, you adopt an "open ended architecture" that will not back you in to a corner down the road when you add levels of complexity. What will work at the most complex level is what you apply at the beginning. When we look at the "end" result of a dive involving multiple stage bottles, leashes, scooters, etc, you start to see where your approach of tucking the spg behind your back starts to become problematic. For example, one or more leashes attached to your left d-ring would, I believe, cause some issues in finding a SPG tucked in behind your back if that SPG was not securely fastened to a known location. Also, envision looking for your SPG while on a bigger dive using a scooter and having to search for it, even for a little bit. You can't come off the trigger for whatever reason, (current, keeping up with buddy in limited viz, etc) and you need to check your SPG. You have trained from day one and built muscle memory that lets you effortlessly reach back, while still on the trigger, find the SPG, bring it forward, check gas, and keep going. No question as to where your SPG migrated to nor is there any chance it has moved.

Yes, I was looking for THE DIR answer. Thanks.

You can make a good case for someone with the experience we have of doing just about anything with equipment etc. However, the entire premise of the DIR concept is that we have a standardized way of doing something and everyone does it that way to make things more efficient and safer in challenging environment. To achieve this end, we have to start at the beginning with an OW diver and start with the primary building blocks and work forward, always keeping the end in sight at the same time. Unclipping an SPG and learning how to manipulate it from a standardized location is part of that process.

I buy that.

I agree that individually, you can take parts of the system and look at them seperately and cut and hack at them. However, I think we need to keep in mind these procedures ,etc., are intended to work as a system and they are not always intended to be the absolute best choice for everybody, everytime in every environment when viewed in isolation. The net result is a system that works better than any sum of parts.

Hope that helps.

It was not my intent to hack the system apart, just to understand the place that little piece plays. I'm coming from a somewhat different place with somewhat different "givens" (e.g., my scooter is a Farallon Mk-6 with a crotch bar, a very different beast).

Now get your lighter, your scissors, and your cave line and tie off that Bolt snap to your SPG before I have to come to Hawaii and dive with you...............wait a minute.........

I think I will, if for no other reason than to see how I like it. You can come over anyway.

 

[LiteHedded]

Thats why. Its real cute in OW, but when you're unaware of your SPG location and its dragging through the silt in a small section of cave, that becomes a problem. Not because its a danger to you, or your buddy, but because you're damaging the cave.

Just clip it off and those passingly rare occasions become nonexistant. Its not rocket surgery...

nor is it brain science.

 

[RTodd]

Hi Thal,

I think since you want the DIR answer we need to start with at least one of the DIR

You are aware that you are getting played harder than the Banjo in Deliverance aren't you?

 

[Bismark]

You are aware that you are getting played harder than the Banjo in Deliverance aren't you?

I might believe that from some people but in this case, not from Thal.

 

[rainman_02]

Thal, the simple answer is: it might work just peachy for a dive with no bottles strapped to your left side. But it's probably not going to work very well when you have two bottles clipped on and you're fumbling around them for a hose and SPG.

It is very simple to clip/unclip the SPG from the left hip D-ring with 0 bottles, 1 bottle, 2 bottles, or 2 bottles and a stage leash.