They aren't final; indeed, they're what you've been saying all along. Repeating them doesn't make them more true (or less false!) than they were before.MHK:In reviewing this thread a couple of final thoughts came to my mind:
The concept of pressure gradient isn't in dispute either. What is in dispute is whether the issues you claim to be addressing have a real, measurable effect on divers that make mitigation statistically significant in any way at the depths in question.1) The red-herring that is being bantered about is that somehow or another the concepts that we are recomending are new, radical and/or un-tested. That is an untrue premise, meaning of course the starting point of the discussion is wrong. In other words, the concept(s) of gas density; hypercapnia; narcosis et. al. are not in dispute.
There is no doubt that at 200', for example, trimix is a good thing. That is not the point under discussion. The point under discussiion is whether it has any value (other than emptying your wallet faster) at 70'.
More misdirecton Kane. The "naysayers" are asking for anything beyond anecdotes that provides evidence of statistically-significant benefit in the range of 100-120'. You've been asked for it on SDN, and now here, and you keep sidestepping the issue and demanding instead that others prove a negative.2) What the naysayers are disputing is the fact that these concepts are inapplicable in the ranges that we are advocating. So the misdirection game that they play is to acknowledge the points, but then say since we didn't do a specific peer review study that "certifies" the idea in the 100' - 120' range that therefore the concept is invalid. That is red-herring 101..
That's not how science works. You prove positive things, not negative ones. As anyone who has any kind of background in the scientific disciplines knows, proving a negative is extremely difficult, as you must eliminate all other possibilities. Proving the converse positive is much easier - if its true, of course.
Actually, that's only half of what's in dispute.3) The real issue to undertand is that the premise of our position isn't in dispute per se, but where we disagree with other agencies and guys like Genesis and/or hh is where the application of the "accepted" fact applies.
The other half of what's in dispute is that the "our position" (thank you for actually identifying this as an official GUE thing too) is the hypocrisy of teaching and certifying someone to do a thing that cannot be responsibly done with the equipment demanded for the class.
No responsible person would do a cave dive (even one with only very limited penetration!) with a single-cylinder, single-orifice tank. Why? Because you have no breathing-gas redundancy, and even when dove to thirds you could find yourself out of gas before you and your buddy can exit. This is true irrespective of the SIZE of the single tank.
The same principle applies to this class, IMHO. Diving Helium-based gasses requires more discipline in ascent profiles. Exactly how much more is the subject of some dispute, but that additional discipline is required is not. Indeed, GUE will not issue the card if they are not convinced you can manage this additional discipline.
This, effectively, means you are in an overhead environment. This is true any time you have had to discard a CESA as a valid response to an emergency, reserving it for the last-ditch column in which the only other choice is certain death.
Since this is an overhead environment, appropriate equipment should be mandated for the class. Kane argues that requiring doubles for such a class is insane. I retort that there are other options, such as dual-orifice valves on large single tanks (e.g. AL100s, HP100 and 120 steels, etc.) or the use of a pony bottle.
Indeed, some form of complete air-supply redundancy has become required kit on many NE dive boats. These folks know something that Kane doesn't? Or is it that GUE simply doesn't want to "limit" their class to people who will make the appropriate investment in both training and money to utilize what they have learned?
There is more than one point in dispute, as I have repeatedly pointed out. Outside of the range where some form of air supply redundancy is, IMHO, mandatory, I argue that Heliox is without benefit. That would be for dives of less than 100' in depth.4) For example, IANTD, TDI, NAUI et. al accept the premise for dives in the 170'+ range, PADI accepts the premise in the 165' range, so the conceptual point isn't whether the premise is true, which is what Genesis & hh have been advancing, the dispute is more along the lines of at what depth?? Similar to saying that an Indy 500 driver wants every advantage that he can get during a race, but since Joe Schmoo doesn't drive at 170 mph we should all ignore the ergodynamic advances in the auto industry..
For dives between 100-130' there may be some benefit. However, at that depth IMHO additional equipment requirements come into play. As such that equipment should, IMHO, be required for the class, since diving at those depths "more safely" is the entire point of the class.
The only issue at question is at what measure do you want to judge the "goal line".. Some think the benefits apply in the 170'+ range, others think they apply in the 165' range, whereas we continue to believe that recreational divers, that dives in the 100'-120' range are capable of deriving the benefits through proper education. We respect everyone's right to draw their own line in the sand and we continue to suggest that we recognize that our training isn't for everyone so if you want to continue to dive outdated principles then we appreciate that GUE training isn't for you. However, if you want to understand the benefits associated with helium based diving in the recreational realm then we remain available.
Regards
And now, in closing, you add a gratuitous insult. It figures.
Never mind that GUE's claim of being "one with the earth" and being focused on conservation would seem to mandate that absent a quantifyable benefit one should not consume a non-renewable resource simply for grins and giggles.