Why not DIR ?

[devolution365]

You know what, Floater, your post on page 2 of this thread sums it up nicely, so I won't drag it on. As you said, DIR is not for everyone, and your reasons numbers 2 and 3 are probably why you won't see me in a DIR-f course anytime soon:

2) You prefer to do it cheap - they advocate, for example, using nitrox for rec diving and trimix below 100' so it can get expensive. In other aspects you may save money though. For example, they do not advocate using computers.

3) Flexibility - DIR philosophy advocates not doing it at all if you can't do it right, so it can be less flexible at times than other systems. However, most people who have taken GUE courses are not 100% DIR compliant.

...although I'd rather not call it "cheap". -I'm willing to spend money on gear I know will work for me, but I have other expensive hobbies as well as diving and generally try not to buy things twice or with the thought that "well, if I don't like it I'll sell it on eBay".

Thanks for your time, I'll now sit back and watch what others have to say about "Why not DIR" (or even WHY DIR for that matter), but I think I've made my own reasoning clear.

 

[Cacia]

people that dive to 200 ft and go into caves have a different outlook. I get it. If I was doing that, I want him there and "on the same program".

I am curious, are there any photogs, "successful ones" that dive DIR ?

They have the best gear, no doubt about it. The best skills (in general) , no doubt about it. The no solo, not ever, even at 40 ft just doesn't make sense to me. I think it is sketchy to rely on recreational buddy and his gear. The limitations for travel experiences would be profound. You can't go unless you have your DIR buddy?

 

[*Floater*]

The limitations for travel experiences would be profound. You can't go unless you have your DIR buddy?

I think this 'no diving with non-DIR divers' may be outdated info. At least I was never taught that during DIR-F. On the contrary the instructor said he has and will dive with most regular divers as long as they don't have a bad attitude. (edit: at least for rec dives, for serious deco and cave dives DIR divers/GUE instructors are probably much more selective about who they dive with).

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

Myth #1: DIR divers follow protocols handed down from instructors without thinking about them.

Myth #2: DIR/Team divers are dependent divers who couldn't solo dive alone.

Myth #0 - Only DIR / GUE can accomplish training "thinking divers" - I suppose if this is what's inferred from my post (how, I'm not sure).

It is the fact that we found this after interviewing 3 different instructors from 3 different agencies that settled our choice. I have posted on this elsewhere as well - so there was no need to search further for us. And, flexibility was a big key as well - for our work schedules to ensure we received the training and demonstrated our skills to the instructor's satisfaction. This instructor flew down to Grand Cayman to do our certification dives with us, even though the group trip he was putting together went bust and everyone else backed out. We were already on-island as we had taken a 2 week trip and spent the first week on Little Cayman. Total time between course enrollment and cert dives was just shy of 3 years for us. We did our cert dives in similar conditions to the dives we plan to use our tech training on (Truk Lagoon, Bikini Atoll, and other similar locations). This is a shining example of "pick the instructor, not the agency" in my experience.

I'd like to hear from any others on how their instructor went the extra distance for them, and I don't care what certifying agency is involved. You can do this via PM to keep me from further cluttering this thread.

However, I have never posted anything personally on categorizing "all DIR divers" - anywhere. For that matter, I've never posted anything about all divers from any certifying agency.

Same goes for "solo divers" and "dependant divers" - zero such posts from me - anywhere.

So, I'm at a bit of a loss as to why part of my post is copied into your mythbusting exercise Lamont. I don't question your post, just why you chose to refer to mine.

 

[cmalinowski]

Just double-checked with the LDS's around me and no one has a bp/w setup for rent.



So, for my personal answer to "Why not DIR?" -it'd be the up-front equipment costs ontop of the cost of DIR-f to find out whether or not it's for me.

In other words, #5 on Vayu's list.

Have you talked to a GUE instructor? I know that no shops around me probably rent BPW setups either, but a certain NY-based GUE instructor would provide students with the necessary gear for the DIR-f class. Now, I believe it was included in the cost of the class, but since I had my gear did not need to test that theory. But maybe checking with the instructor would be helpful instead of LDS' around you that aren't GUE shops. If it is included, and maybe other GUE instructors do the same thing, it may actually be cheaper than renting non-GUE gear just to take a course to prove that you don't want to purchase gear for a course... but, as has been said: To each his own.

As for me, I have met butthead GUE divers and butthead non-GUE divers. Surprisingly, I have met more non-GUE buttheads, but that may be because there are more non-GUE divers. And, it appears that the butthead GUE divers talk loudly and tend to stick out and attract negative attention to themselves and give all other GUE divers a bad rap. But we mostly don't care. We dive the way we want to... I suggest you do the same and don't let this thread weigh your decision too much. Get actually course material (5thD-x has it on their essentials disk I believe) and make an educated decision instead of one based on the feelings of others. There are jerks everywhere and no training agency has a monoply on them.

My diving experience is limited and and I still have lots more to learn. I learn from GUE and non-GUE people just as my GUE instructor taught me. GUE is not a religion, not even to the instructors from what I can tell. Maybe I was just lucky to have enjoyed my GUE experience up to this point. Maybe in time I'll come to see some light about why all of the GUE people are pricks. But until then, I am very happy diving with my GUE/DIR buddies. But, I am also happy diving with the non-GUE divers.

I went diving two weeks ago with one GUE diver, one GUE-in-working diver, and one non-GUE diver. The non-GUE diver was great and had great skills, and I would dive with him again. My skills need a lot of work. Just because I took DIRf does not make me a good diver... trust me, I know I have a long road of learning ahead. I choose (present tense) to go the GUE route because I have met people and learned stuff that coincides with the direction I'd like to go. That non-GUE diver chose a different path and ened up a great diver.

Chris

 

[OE2X]

I am curious, are there any photogs, "successful ones" that dive DIR ?

Yes.

 

[Laughing Swordfish]

I think this 'no diving with non-DIR divers' may be outdated info. At least I was never taught that during DIR-F. On the contrary the instructor said he has and will dive with most regular divers as long as they don't have a bad attitude. (edit: at least for rec dives, for serious deco and cave dives DIR divers/GUE instructors are probably much more selective about who they dive with).

If you are DIR trained but dive with non-DIR trained/equiped people (no long hose etc) then you are not diving DIR. I don't see how you can get around this. Either you are DIR, or you are not.

It sounds like what you are taught in the fundies is basically that DIR is unnnecessary for recreational diving and you are only learning it for future tech training or rec dives with DIR buddies. It sounds like the agency or at least that particular instructor is acknowledging what some of us have been saying for years. DIR is overkill for recreational diving. If it weren't, the instructor wouldn't be throwing DIR out the window for recreational dives.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Somebody explain to me how diving a well though-out gear configuration, within a well honed buddy team, using standard protocols throughout, overkill for any dive?

I think that thinking should go out with your first broken mask strap swordfish, when you finally have one that is.

I'll agree that if you're diving with non-DIR divers it's likely not DIR diving you're doing, but I doubt you've been saying anything of the kind "for years" my friend.

 

[mdb]

Well this is one issue that is debated constantly here and everywhere else. There will be many people trying to get you to go one way or the other. There will be many posts here with lots of links so be prepared to read a lot. The most important thing is to go into this tornado you are about to enter with an open mind. You may come to the point of wanting to take the best ideas from both and combining them in a way you feel comfortable.
There is no reason not to DIR as you say. There are many aspects of DIR, including the training , that I feel are better than mainstream agencies. But it comes down to diving the way you want to. As you pointed out, the very experienced diver was not DIR. There expert divers on both sides and you will find the most experienced divers on either side will give you honest opinions on why they chose their particular style and equipment.
Good luck.

Take as many courses as possible. You learn something every time. I have had several great instructors over 30+ years. I've been a solo diver for quite a long time. I've had several dives where "team members" lost it and grabbed for regs, masks, whatever was available. You do not learn to water ski, or snow ski, with a "buddy" etc. You simply learn to chart your own course and be self sufficent. Keep learning. There is no one perfect way.

 

[Laughing Swordfish]

Somebody explain to me how diving a well though-out gear configuration, within a well honed buddy team, using standard protocols throughout, overkill for any dive?

I think that thinking should go out with your first broken mask strap swordfish, when you finally have one that is.

I'll agree that if you're diving with non-DIR divers it's likely not DIR diving you're doing, but I doubt you've been saying anything of the kind "for years" my friend.

If it weren't overkill, the instructor wouldn't admit to being non DIR for (some) recreational dives. If it were *truly* necessary he would be DIR 100% of the time.

BTW I did my part one hardhat diving cert in '97. I have been saying it for years. This debate used to rage over at rec.scuba 6-7 years ago. Were you diving then?

P.S. You are not 'my friend'