Why not DIR ?

[WarmWaterDiver]

Guess I read it wrong.
Sorry.

No problem - it looks like you missed the last 2 sentences of that paragraph somehow though. Probably during my editing. The 'everything' term was what I found most troublesome.

Our TSD-3 instructor (ANDI IT#95) in particular practiced what he preached about training "thinking divers". This is how the shoe really fit for us.

And, I think you should see TS&M's post below UP's in that thread - refers right to bypassing concious thought.

 

[lamont]

Allow me to re-emphasize the emphasis on "thinking divers" in theory and in practice was (and continues to be) the key for me. Hope that helps clarify.

Myth #1: DIR divers follow protocols handed down from instructors without thinking about them.

Myth #2: DIR/Team divers are dependent divers who couldn't solo dive alone.

 

[devolution365]

Just double-checked with the LDS's around me and no one has a bp/w setup for rent.

Hi Erica,
We do not rent the backplate setup sorry... if i wore one, i would let you
use it, but I like the jacket style since i am a recreational diver. I even
called a few friends who own dive stores and they do not either. Sorry I
could not help... dive safe!
Cathy
visibilityunlimited

So, for my personal answer to "Why not DIR?" -it'd be the up-front equipment costs ontop of the cost of DIR-f to find out whether or not it's for me.

In other words, #5 on Vayu's list.

 

[*Floater*]

Just double-checked with the LDS's around me and no one has a bp/w setup for rent.



So, for my personal answer to "Why not DIR?" -it'd be the up-front equipment costs ontop of the cost of DIR-f to find out whether or not it's for me.

In other words, #5 on Vayu's list.

The cheapest single tank bp/w packages I've seen go for around $350 (in particular that's the current price for the Golem 35# SS combo that I think Vavu is using which I'm told is a high quality package). In the long-run you may end up paying more if you go cheap now.

As for DIR-F it's unlikely to be a complete waste even if you find out that DIR is not for you because you'll still improve your basic diving skills unless they are near perfect already. However, it all costs money, and no one here can say whether your money would be better spent on whatever you'd otherwise spend it on.

 

[devolution365]

The cheapest single tank bp/w packages I've seen go for around $350 (in particular that's the current price for the Golem 35# SS combo that I think Vavu is using which I'm told is a high quality package). In the long-run you may end up paying more if you go cheap now.

Don't you think that $350 is a lot to invest in equipment that you've never even tried before? I mean, the first advice given to newbies on this board is to not buy equipment until they've had more experience trying it out, etc.

Additionally, despite all I've read about the positives of going to a bp/w I have questions about whether it'd work well for the majority of the diving that I do. The reason: I love my pockets. I have a bunch of stuff I like taking with me while diving, and I'd either have to leave it top-side with a minimalist bp/w setup, or add pockets to the bp/w, my wetsuit, something... Why? The jacket styles have seemed to work well for me so far...

I mean, we'll see... I'm planning on doing some DIR-style exercises out a the quarry this year to improve my trim and buoyancy while task loaded. If I find that I find a problem with jacket-style BC's where I just can't get my trim right, I'll look into the bp/w again (perhaps there's someone in the area that'll let me try theirs?). I'm not planning to buy anything until I find something that will give me the performance I want. I mean, all BC's do the same thing, it's about finding what works well for YOU, right?

NOTE: Let's not let this thread turn into a bp/w vs jacket debate. We've had plenty of those, I've read them all and given consideration to the positives and negatives on BOTH sides.

 

[Snowbear]

Additionally, despite all I've read about the positives of going to a bp/w I have questions about whether it'd work well for the majority of the diving that I do. The reason: I love my pockets. I have a bunch of stuff I like taking with me while diving, and I'd either have to leave it top-side with a minimalist bp/w setup, or add pockets to the bp/w, my wetsuit, something... Why? The jacket styles have seemed to work well for me so far...

Why? for me... it's streamlining. I like less bulkiness on my torso that's caused by BC pockets (the same reason I don't like Halcyon's ACB weight pockets). I have pockets on my drysuit for "stuff." When I finally tried warm water diving in Palau, I put a thigh pocket on my wetsuit. Some folks were using the X-shorts, but when they saw my thigh pocket they got jealous

It worked so well that I'm actually planning to glue one to the other side as well.

I mean, we'll see... I'm planning on doing some DIR-style exercises out a the quarry this year to improve my trim and buoyancy while task loaded. If I find that I find a problem with jacket-style BC's where I just can't get my trim right, I'll look into the bp/w again (perhaps there's someone in the area that'll let me try theirs?).

While it seems most folks find it's easier to "trim" in a BP/W, you should still be able to improve and get your trim and buoyancy right in your jacket BCD. It's a skill that can be acheived regardless of the gear you're wearing.

With as many divers as you have in your general area, I can't imagine there isn't *someone* with a BP/W you could try....

 

[OneBrightGator]

All I'm saying is that it's rare, in my limited experience, to see the evidence of the kind of training I've seen from GUE.

Since I was aspiring to tech/cave diving (haven't done the cave part yet)

Perhaps it would be clearer if you explained what training you have experienced that was suboptimal, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the quality of training when you get the chance to pursue cave diving.

 

[*Floater*]

Don't you think that $350 is a lot to invest in equipment that you've never even tried before? I mean, the first advice given to newbies on this board is to not buy equipment until they've had more experience trying it out, etc.

That's generally good advice, but with bp/w you pretty much know the advantages and disadvantages without trying. See this thread for example: why would any one get a jacket BC

As for pockets, you would need to invest in thigh pockets of some sort and bolt snaps. SS bolt snaps go for around $5-10 a piece and thigh pockets cost at least $20-35, plus glue costs.

High quality non-bp/w bcd's would probably end up costing about the same in the end, so it's not really a price question imo. You just have research the advantages and disadvantages and decide based on that. If you get to try them then that's even better of course, but most people do not have the option to try a bp/w before they buy since bp/w rigs aren't commonly available for rent.

 

[matt_unique]

Myth #1: DIR divers follow protocols handed down from instructors without thinking about them.

Myth #2: DIR/Team divers are dependent divers who couldn't solo dive alone.

I think on the contrary, you hit the nail on the head. As with all things - does not apply to all divers - but I think these myth's as you describe them are right on target.

As for #1, you read it all the time right on this site. For example, the religious opposition to carrying any gear that supposedly affects "streamlining, hydostatic instability" etc. such as two reels, ankle weights, etc. Any diver who actually tested these concepts, rather than spewing what they were told with 0 personal experience, would know it's irrelevant in the real world. It is not blasphemous for a DIR diver to admit that if you were to wear ankle weights on dive #1, then were sans ankle weights for dive #2, with all other factors being equal, there would be 0 measurable difference in air consumed or anything else?

#2 is also right on in my opinion. DIR divers universally have a different definition of dependence. If you need to rely on your buddies gear for any reason, I consider that dependent. DIR divers rationalize that differently.

My perspective is that of a solo diver.

Contrary to the tone, I'm not trying to bust your chops but to be accurate about the topic of discussion. I have spoken to one DIR instructor on this site who I think is right on, has a great attitude, does not fall within the sterotypical DIR diver, etc. Once again, the DIR stigma is not accurate for all, but in opinion, many.

--Matt

 

[Cacia]

yea