Why No Fundies for DIR Agnostics

[Kingpatzer]

Zoloft, it's not just for breakfast anymore.

 

[Teamcasa]

....I find Peter Guy's last comment most persuasive. Yes, the bulk of divers want to learn enough to survive on infrequent trips to the tropics on DM-guided dives -- and there's nothing wrong with that. At the same time, though, the major agencies do offer courses such as Rescue and Course-collections like Master Diver, so there is broader market for folks who just want to be better divers. That suggest that big factor is, as Peter speculates, that the broader instructor community needs to catch up.

There are instructors out there that offer extended training that does not fall into a specific structure like DIR/GUE. Price is generally not a motivating factor for those who desire more training in something they are passionate about, they just budget for it. However, price does put off many vacation/recreational divers. Many just don't see or even recognize how much better and safer they can be with the additional training.
Don't forget that mentors can also be a great way to improve as well.

 

[rjack321]

At the same time, though, the major agencies do offer courses such as Rescue and Course-collections like Master Diver, so there is broader market for folks who just want to be better divers.

Unfortunately, many of these just want the card & bragging rights.

 

[iztok]

I also now strongly suggest that you get a copy of my book to supplement the course but it is not required. Much of what we will go over is discussed in detail in it.

If you don't want to buy a book from Jim I can sell you a copy for $1000. $100 goes to Jim, $5 goes to me for shipping and rest goes to scubaboard defense fund. Or you can buy excellent book directly from Jim for a fraction of the price mentioned

 

[Gombessa]

This is a bit of malarky that people like to put out there. Sure, if I end up next to someone who ACTUALLY knows something and is willing to teach me, then fine I can probably learn alot that way. BUT, how would a newer diver know who actually knows something worth learning?

While I won't go so far as to call malarky, my own diving experience showed me otherwise as well. I started out diving with GUE mentors from the very beginning, in a community with a relatively high number of supportive, friendly DIR divers, including technical and cave divers. And while they've helped tremendously in the few years I've been in this sport prior to taking Fundamentals, the class itself was something else. The amount and concentration of direct feedback, details, and personalized attention even for very basic skills made far more of a difference than diving with mentors and having them give feedback. There's just something about an intense, focused classroom setting that can really make the difference in learning and mastering the details--the instructor is in a position where he is able, and has the mandate, to really get in there and say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done to help you see what you are doing wrong and how you need to fix it. Having gone through the class, what I get out of the help and advice of mentors has changed and improved a lot as well. I seriously believe that they serve complementary, and different roles, particularly given the intensive nature of Fundamentals when compared with more typical recreational scuba classes.

 

[lowviz]

...........The amount and concentration of direct feedback, details, and personalized attention even for very basic skills made far more of a difference than diving with mentors and having them give feedback. ....................///............. particularly given the intensive nature of Fundamentals when compared with more typical recreational scuba classes.

Gombessa, this is not a troll.

What is the purpose of setting students up for failure? I'm dying to take GUE-F (or DIR-F who cares) but I just don't get the concept. Is it the basic military-think of breaking someone down then building them up within an elite team mentality or is it just marketing: "we are the very best, you couldn't possibly pass on the first try"? To me, Primer seems to be GUE-F with a guaranteed fail. I'm planning to take Essentials, practice, then take Fundies. I don't have any axe to grind with GUE or DIR, I just seem to be missing an important concept somewhere. I do my homework before taking any class or instructor, but this one really baffles me...

 

[elan]

Gombessa, this is not a troll.

What is the purpose of setting students up for failure? I'm dying to take GUE-F (or DIR-F who cares) but I just don't get the concept. Is it the basic military-think of breaking someone down then building them up within an elite team mentality or is it just marketing: "we are the very best, you couldn't possibly pass on the first try"? To me, Primer seems to be GUE-F with a guaranteed fail. I'm planning to take Essentials, practice, then take Fundies. I don't have any axe to grind with GUE or DIR, I just seem to be missing an important concept somewhere. I do my homework before taking any class or instructor, but this one really baffles me...

You are missing something. Noone is setting you for failure, you need to stop listening to the crowd and concentrate on the class. I have never felt this during the whole class (I took it with Steve Blanchard and Dan McKay). The instructors were actually very supportive and pushed us to pass.

There is not need to take Essentials, just take the fundamentals, even if you do not pass you can polish the skills for another 6 month and then redo the final dive AFAIK. GUE-F is not a test it's a class when they teach you the skills and techniques, and set your a mindset. Look at the GUE-F "passing" as the ticket to Tech 1 or Cave 1 , if you do not plan to do that there is no need for your to have a oass. You will still take a lot of value our of the class.

 

[HenrikBP]

Gombessa, this is not a troll.

What is the purpose of setting students up for failure? I'm dying to take GUE-F (or DIR-F who cares) but I just don't get the concept. Is it the basic military-think of breaking someone down then building them up within an elite team mentality or is it just marketing: "we are the very best, you couldn't possibly pass on the first try"? To me, Primer seems to be GUE-F with a guaranteed fail. I'm planning to take Essentials, practice, then take Fundies. I don't have any axe to grind with GUE or DIR, I just seem to be missing an important concept somewhere. I do my homework before taking any class or instructor, but this one really baffles me...

As have been discussed elsewhere - it's a question of mindset of the students and of what can realistically be accomplished in the time allotted to the class. If you (the generic "you", not you you) go in with the mindset of learning as much as you can from class, and knowing that the class will give you the tools to accomplish what you need to pass - well then I don't think it's a question of setting anyone up to fail ...?

Henrik

 

[lowviz]

You are missing something. Noone is setting you for failure, you need to stop listening to the crowd and concentrate on the class. I have never felt this during the whole class (I took it with Steve Blanchard and Dan McKay). The instructors were actually very supportive and pushed us to pass.

There is not need to take Essentials, just take the fundamentals, even if you do not pass you can polish the skills for another 6 month and then redo the final dive AFAIK. GUE-F is not a test it's a class when they teach you the skills and techniques, and set your a mindset. Look at the GUE-F "passing" as the ticket to Tech 1 or Cave 1 , if you do not plan to do that there is no need for your to have a oass. You will still take a lot of value our of the class.

I am only fascinated by the possibility of really strengthening my core skills. Never was much for cards, I have what I need to go where I want and besides, nobody ever asks for one. I guess my gears jam at what I should know before Fundies. Shouldn't Fundies-I be nothing but establishing a stable platform? That could take days for some people. And they would be very well served to take just such a course. Six students would present six different problems that are keeping them from progressing. I would jump at such a course. -and I can hover fairly well.

 

[elan]

I am only fascinated by the possibility of really strengthening my core skills. Never was much for cards, I have what I need to go where I want and besides, nobody ever asks for one.

That's great , you should have no issues in the class See if you can take a class that spans 2 weeks, then you have the whole week to work on the problems.