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Why No Fundies for DIR Agnostics
- Thread starter Ripple in still water
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HenrikBP
Contributor
I didn't take your post as trollish at all.
First off, I've only had (and fully experienced) one Fundies class, but it was nothing military-like at all, and certainly not boot camp. One of my friends has taken two full Fundies courses (and passed both, he's just that awesome of a team player where he was willing to retake the class with his current buddies in order to get more out of it) and his sentiments were the same. The pressure in our Fundamentals class was entirely self-wrought. The instructor doesn't shout at you, he doesn't say "You f'ing suck, you shouldn't be in the water." It's very calm, rational, explained, and fun-centric, but with high standards. What that means is, if you successfully back kick across the pool and are feeling good about yourself, or perform a valve drill and for the first time stay within a 2ft buoyancy window, you shouldn't be surprised if the instructor says "That was great, much much better than before, but here's what you can work on: On the back kick, you're still sculling with your fins to stay in position between strokes, and raising your fin tips on the loading stroke. Your trim is naturally about 15 degrees, so your loading stroke points downwards a bit, and thus pulls you lower in the water with every back kick, causing you to inhale deeper to maintain buoyancy, and you're dropping your head a bit on the power stroke. On the valve drill, your're dropping your head about 2 inches when reaching for your valves, your trim goes from 0 to about 15-20 degrees when reaching for your left post, you forgot to purge your primary before inserting it after turning your valve back on, you didn't sufficiently signal to your buddy on the isolator shutdown, and you drifted about 6-7 feet forward while doing so causing your buddy to need to back kick, while your left knee dropped about 5 inches while you were reaching for your isolator, and you held your breath at the same time so you rose about 10 inches in the water column at the same time. That's a lot to think about, but focus first on not dropping your head, and keeping your knees up, and that should help much of the other things as you practice." Of course, it wasn't presented as a huge laundry list as I've condensed above, but as a discussion over the course of a lengthly and detailed debrief.
To the rest of the world, and to ourselves, the back kick and valve drill looked absolutely smooth and polished, and we would have been ecstatic with it in a practice session, but the instructor is really keeping an eye on the details. There is no berating, no condescension and no humiliation at all from the instructor. Of course, as students aiming to improve and better ourselves as divers, hearing objective details of how much more we need to improve, especially when just a few moments ago we thought we were so bad-ass, can be downputting, and that's just human nature. The instructor doesn't do it to break you down, he's just keeping you mindful of the level of standards GUE aims for.
This also goes towards the "setting you up to fail" thought. I never got the sense that this was the case in my class. It was always presented as a recreational class, geared towards the ultimate goal of having more fun in the water. You're given an evaluation of your strengths and areas for improvement, how you currently stack up, and whether your final rating is provisional, rec, or tech, but NONE of these is a failure, unless you yourself have made it the overriding point of the class. You still learned the same amount regardless of your final rating, know what you need to improve if you wish to do so, and even the tech pass student comes away with a long list of things to work on in order to improve. It's never like "you suck," or "congrats, you survived the hazing and are in with the elite crew now." It's just more quantitative than what a lot of people may be used to with what they get in a typical navigation or PPB specialty while working towards something like AOW.
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Gombessa,
Jeez, what a post!
Thanks. That describes exactly what I am looking for, also explains a lot about the associated angst. When I can rip through valves while keeping 2-5', I'm signing on the line...
Sincerely appreciate your response,
lowviz
Jeez, what a post!
Thanks. That describes exactly what I am looking for, also explains a lot about the associated angst. When I can rip through valves while keeping 2-5', I'm signing on the line...
Sincerely appreciate your response,
lowviz
Peter_C
Contributor
One thing I haven't seen posted is that anyone who doesn't get a pass after taking Fundies (Note I did not say failure as there is no such thing from the class), can typically spend a dive with the instructor to try to show the instructor their improvements over the last few months diving with their buddies. Therefore the class became a longer learning experience, but the end result is exactly what the student hoped for with lots of information gained, and the opportunity to get the Tech Pass they initially dreamed of (Then were happy to get a Rec pass at the end of the initial class LOL).
Not passing is very common just because everything is new and everything has to be practiced more than just what the class time allows. For me getting a Rec Pass at the end of the class was good enough. The skills I learned and improved were worth every dollar and hour I spent with the fabulous GUE instructors we have. As Gombessa said at no time were we ever berated or made fun of. Instead we were shown how "we could improve ourselves". I would not liken the class to anything militarist.
Not passing is very common just because everything is new and everything has to be practiced more than just what the class time allows. For me getting a Rec Pass at the end of the class was good enough. The skills I learned and improved were worth every dollar and hour I spent with the fabulous GUE instructors we have. As Gombessa said at no time were we ever berated or made fun of. Instead we were shown how "we could improve ourselves". I would not liken the class to anything militarist.
OP
Ripple in still water
Contributor
Hah. FWIW, my cavern class was like boot camp and the instructor berated us constantly. He did so with a smile, and claimed at one point that he did the berating to see how we did under stress; there was a lot of stress. He did this not only on the surface but through his regulator. (Note to instructors: Just because you can make out what you yell through your reg doesn't mean that anybody else can do so.)
So there GUE pansies! You want to among the few, the proud, the brave? Then it's the Marines or NACD.
[Mandatory non-trolling disclaimer: the last paragraph is a joke]
So there GUE pansies! You want to among the few, the proud, the brave? Then it's the Marines or NACD.
[Mandatory non-trolling disclaimer: the last paragraph is a joke]
Well said Gombessa.
My instructor wouldn't even point out as many things at a go as you described. His style was generally to solicit your opinion about your performance first, then perhaps go over video (again, having you point out where you could have done better), then add in a few other things that he saw, all the while offering suggestions and tips on how to improve. It's really not boot camp.
My instructor wouldn't even point out as many things at a go as you described. His style was generally to solicit your opinion about your performance first, then perhaps go over video (again, having you point out where you could have done better), then add in a few other things that he saw, all the while offering suggestions and tips on how to improve. It's really not boot camp.
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My instructor had his hands full just pointing out which side my left post was on ... then again, I had similar issues when I took dancing lessons ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
There is no "failure". Seriously, you are making way too much about the card, the "gateway" to some other class which I can guarantee you aren't ready for anyway. And thinking zilch about learning the right things.
Take the class, go away with whatever feedback you get. Primer, provisional, rec-pass, tech-pass DOES NOT MATTER, the instructor feedback matters.
Take the instructor feedback, combine with your buddies and a mentor if possible. Mix well and improve your diving. Repeat. Someday there will be a very anti-climatic card, big whoop.
I took Essentials (then Rec2, then Tech1, then Divemaster) (all UTD). I haven't taken a GUE-F class yet but plan to. When I took Essentials I did not have any real exposure to DIR before. There is a vibrant DIR community where I live, I just didn't know there was a difference between DIR and not-DIR, at the time. Essentials is not a pass/fail class, just a workshop. I was super-stressed about it and did not fare well in my own mind. In GUE-F terms, where people pass, fail, or proviso... I would likely have failed, LOL! I was skiddish, like a bat-out-of-hell, could not hold position, trim, or stops. I may even have scared one or two of my class mates from ever diving with me again over it. Did not even finish Essentials because of a nose bleed triggered by dry weather or a squeeze. But I practiced it on every dive. 15 dives later and 2 months I checked out just fine with marked improvements.
Some people I know have done both Essentials (or UTD Rec1) then Fundies. One got much more out of Fundies and the other didn't. My opinion is that it may be better to pick one of the agencies and take that path, depending upon your own needs/criteria. Unless you are terrible I think GUE will provision you, and UTD will just let you know what you need to work on. I suppose it works better if you have other DIR people to dive with frequently.
Whatever the case, whether you plan to pursue higher-level training or not, I think you'll get a lot out of either class. But please don't feel like there is a need to have to take one before the other. UTD is not a lower-level pass-anybody kind of organization where people bide their time until the are "good enough" for Fundies. Both are respectable organizations that will show you how to do the skills so you can go do them.
Whatever your choice, good luck and have fun
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