Why It Is So Difficult ???

[ianr33]

Interesting comment on the descents Perrone. It is probably what I find hardest about a drysuit. Going down a slope,especially in bad viz ,it seems automatic to make my body parallel to the slope.That puts my feet up and head down and very easily leads to floaty feet. Dropping my knees below head level is the way to do it,but I dont always get it right!

 

[PerroneFord]

Think through this with me.

1. I have floaty feet
2. I am descending to either mid-water, or toward a silty bottom.
3. I want to keep floaty feet to a minumum.

So what happens, by keeping my torso slightly higher than my feet, the gas is pushed toward my upper body. When I reach depth, I simply lay down to horizontal. If I descend horizontal (and I did it several times this weekend), and I screw up, I now have feet full of air and no easy way of sorting the problem out without corking. The drawback is that now, gas is escaping from the suit if I leave the exhaust fully open. This can be solved by either adding gas to the suit, or by closing the valve a couple of clicks on descent.

I did a couple of descents and ascents horizontal. My dive buddy (very experienced) offered some very positive comments on how I looked in the water. So I was pleased with that. But for now, I think I'll keep my feet just slightly lower than the rest of me!

Perrone, if you do your descents head up, you're more likely to have the suit vent when you don't want it to. Keeping your body horizontal and the arm slightly below the torso will trap all the gas in the suit.

It takes a while to figure out how much gas you need to add to the suit and how much to the wing. After a while, you know how much squeeze you want to dive with, and you just keep adding gas whenever the suit feels tighter than that, and add gas to the wing to stop any sinking once the suit is comfortable. It's not unusual for me to get to the bottom and decide the distribution of gas between wing and suit isn't want I want it to be, and vent the wing a little and add some gas to the suit.

 

[TSandM]

Hmmm. I've had tons of problems with my dry suit buoyancy over the last couple of years, but getting too much air in my feet on descent isn't one of them. Sounds as though you're either descending a little head down, or putting too much air in the suit, or have REALLY loose legs and boots.

I had a discussion yesterday morning about the cave instructor who led our tours in Mexico. I was commenting that I saw him vent his wing a number of times, but never saw him vent his dry suit, and I certainly NEVER saw him drop his feet to get the air out of them, which is something I always have to do. It was explained to me that the combination of the neoprene sock-like turbosoles with fin keepers, cinched up "ankle straps" (whatever they are) and the right sort of socks makes it so very little air ever gets INTO the feet, so they don't have to drop the feet to exhaust them.

I have more rigid boots, and I get air in mine, and I have to drop my feet to empty them, but not on descent.

 

[dsteding]

I had a discussion yesterday morning about the cave instructor who led our tours in Mexico. I was commenting that I saw him vent his wing a number of times, but never saw him vent his dry suit, and I certainly NEVER saw him drop his feet to get the air out of them, which is something I always have to do. It was explained to me that the combination of the neoprene sock-like turbosoles with fin keepers, cinched up "ankle straps" (whatever they are) and the right sort of socks makes it so very little air ever gets INTO the feet, so they don't have to drop the feet to exhaust them.

You know, the one thing I don't like about my new DC suit is that it has the integrated boots and they are a little too big. My feet definitely get more floaty in this suit (size 12 boots with size 11 feet) as compared to my ND suit (size 10 boots). Not a big deal, but I do have to drop my feet on ascents. I can see that in caves this might be a non-optimal setup.

 

[Rick Inman]

I have the attached boots, also, which hold a little too much gas. But once you descend 15 or 20 feet, the gas in the suit will have already started to compress, and by 40 feet there is a good, solid squeeze. Unless I'm putting air in the suit, there is nothing to vent and so nothing to drop the feet for.

Now on ascent, thats a different kettle of fish. Especially if all my tanks are low and I'm starting to get a little buoyant, I'll actually come way heads-up, maybe once on ascent, and blow all the expanded gas out.

 

[TSandM]

And, as Joe Talavera pointed out to me, dropping the feet or going head up in midwater to move air around in the suit is NO issue, because there's no bottom to disturb.

 

[PerroneFord]

This is all well and good in open water. TS&M, I am going to take you to Peacock when you come to cave country. At the entrace, you take a nice 45 degree downslope for 30ft on your way to the tie-off. So essentially the ONLY path down is a sheer drop that nearly stands you on your head. And you've got the reel. Your feet will want to make you a lawn dart, your buoyancy/light hand is busy, and you're hoping your team is with you since looking back (upward behind you) is an excercise in futility!

I love that entrance!

 

[ianr33]

Does anybody actually use a reel in Peacock outside of a class? The Goldline starts about 6 inches away from openwater. Just wondering

 

[PerroneFord]

I wouldn't exactly call the barrell open water! But I ran a line in there. But I'm boy-scout in that regard.

 

[TSandM]

Yeah, one of the things I took away from my Mexico experience was that caves inflict non-horizontal body postures on you, and you don't have much choice but to do what they require.