Suggestion Why isn't there a "Men's Forum"?

[divad]

Just asking.

 

[Bubblesong]

As I said in the PM: In a male dominated sport, having a men's forum would only be placating puerile pot stirrers.

I doubt the posts on a Men's Issues Forum would ALL be puerile: for the Love of my three fellows; my brother, my husband and my son, (Sunny day diver, Sunday Diver and Someday Diver respectively) and others male divers and their caring partners might want to ask about delicate topics if given a "safe space" some easy examples:
1) diving and Viagra: already covered in Dive medicine. Seduction Salvation = Decompression Doom, leave the Thrill Pills off the packing list.
2)Hairy Guys and Dry Suit seals, best options for male divers whose furry wrists and back of neck are usually associated with Rise of a Full Moon: waxing? Shaving? Cornrows don't work.
3)Beer Gut and No Butt: best weight belt options that don't slide right off the Dad Bod? I actually know a guy who makes a specialty custom harness for this situation. PM me for contact info.
Granted, these orphan topics can be given a spot on the wide open public view of other Forums, but take pity on the shy guy, and give them a Men's Forum.

 

[Adam Grose]

Most of the topics discussed in a men's forum would be a TOS violation.

Hehehehe.. you may be right about that.

 

[Storker]

I doubt the posts on a Men's Issues Forum would ALL be puerile: for the Love of my three fellows; my brother, my husband and my son, (Sunny day diver, Sunday Diver and Someday Diver respectively) and others male divers and their caring partners might want to ask about delicate topics if given a "safe space" some easy examples:
1) diving and Viagra: already covered in Dive medicine. Seduction Salvation = Decompression Doom, leave the Thrill Pills off the packing list.
2)Hairy Guys and Dry Suit seals, best options for male divers whose furry wrists and back of neck are usually associated with Rise of a Full Moon: waxing? Shaving? Cornrows don't work.
3)Beer Gut and No Butt: best weight belt options that don't slide right off the Dad Bod? I actually know a guy who makes a specialty custom harness for this situation. PM me for contact info.
Granted, these orphan topics can be given a spot on the wide open public view of other Forums, but take pity on the shy guy, and give them a Men's Forum.

i guess I'm not a member of the core audience for a Men's Issues forum...

 

[AdivingBel]

i guess I'm not a member of the core audience for a Men's Issues forum...

hmmm really...I think I remember a quote to the effect of "where I dive it's so cold if you can find my junk, I'll give you a medal" ...or something like that...

 

[Storker]

hmmm really...I think I remember a quote to the effect of "where I dive it's so cold if you can find my junk, I'll give you a medal" ...or something like that...

Shrinkage in cold conditions is inevitable. And it's not a purely male issue, it affects straight women as well.

 

[diversteve]

And don't forget the all important Men's dive fashion section - Warning you can't unsee this...and it's not me.

Spoiler

 

[Bubblesong]

And don't forget the all important Men's dive fashion section - Warning you can't unsee this...and it's not me.

Spoiler

View attachment 397144

He is Rockin' that Teddy Bear.

 

[uncfnp]

That's exactly the "us versus them" thinking that I was referring to above.

Nobody says that women need to meet a male model. If you think back from the days of 1980's feminism then there was a definite intention to break down that model. That's also what is required; to engage in the ambient culture in order to effect changes. I phrased that above as engaging men as equals. What that means is to simply be yourself and call men out on their BS if they are being patronizing or sexist.

Think of it like this. When you combine hydrogen and oxygen, what results is neither hydrogen nor oxygen. It is something entirely else, namely water. This is what happens in society too if people are willing to interact with one another. Society evolves to accommodate differences...

I know this can be frustrating and take a lot of patience. I know this first hand because I am a minority in the country where I live and there is a lot of "anti foreigner" sentiment.... but I also know that if I allow myself to engage in "us versus them" thinking that I will shoot myself in the foot because as soon as you start thinking that the ambient culture is something bad that would prefer to reject then you are allowing yourself to be marginalized and you are no longer in a position to participate as an equal and affect any change for the better.

So when you ask why you have to conform to a male model, this is exactly what you are doing, rejecting "them" and in the process putting yourself in a pigeon-hole. That's not fair to yourself and that approach is an absolute guarantee that equality will remain out of reach.

So when I suggest to "engage" men as equals that doesn't mean "be like men", it means "be a woman and make sure men respect that".

Just a point of view, of course. We've drifted quite a way from the OP and I'm in danger of making this into a dissertation on feminism so I guess I should leave it at that and drop out of the discussion now so it doesn't get any more derailed.

R..

Diver0001. I think you are perhaps sincere and obviously I have not had the time nor the eloquence to try and explain my perspective. But you still don't get it. It is not "us vs them" that I am espousing but rather just the opposite. I think NWGratefuldiver stated it well as equivalency vs equality.

Yes, I reject the male model in that I reject being "pigeon holed" (your phrase) into a man's perspective of what equality means. And part of this is a result of the feminist movement and their tendency to want to be treated like a man in order to feel equal. That is not me. I will never be the equal to a man in a male dominated society. Historically we have failed to value the skills and roles of women. That was the problem. And the fact that women were "pigeon holed" into these roles.

The solution is not to make women like men for us to be equal but to value the skills and contributions of women. And yes there are differences but there is also a lot of common ground where even now things are not equal. Pay inequality is the best example I can think of at the moment.

You seem to suggest that you understand the gender issues better then I as a girl that grew up in a neighborhood of boys, as a teen in H.S., as a female university student and finally as a woman in a historically male dominate profession and prehaps you do but I am not convinced. But I am convinced that you are comfortable in your beliefs and that what I share today will have very little impact on those beliefs.

 

[Diver0001]

The solution is not to make women like men in order for equal but to value the skills and contributions of women.

Well... somehow what I'm saying is clearly not getting across but it's the internet and I guess that's par for the course. When I read what I quoted above then I see that you and I basically are in full agreement about goals and solutions.

That said, I think where we disagree will be in how to achieve those solutions. In your previous two posts there seemed to me to be an undercurrent of "us versus them" thinking that I don't think is helpful but which you appear to be saying is unavoidable. I think we will have to agree to disagree about that.

I would like to generalize this discussion so it stops being just about gender relations and moves more into the realm of achieving social change in broader terms.

I believe conflict models don't generally lead to lasting societal changes and I believe that "us versus them" thinking is the root of most fundamental human conflict. I also fully understand that I may be in the minority in thinking that and I fully understand that our societies (yours perhaps even more so than where I live) are "hardening" and that our leaders seem in many cases to be active participants in driving the "hardening" process.... (and you have to wonder why they want this....)

Just to make one last attempt to clarify what I was saying to you but in more general terms, it's this. When you engage in "us versus them" thinking then you don't pigeon-hole the other guy.... you pigeon-hole YOURSELF. This is the self destructive catch-22 of thinking in terms of conflict.... you think you're fighting the other guy, but what you're really doing is providing them the ammunition they need to fight you. It's like pouring gasoline on a fire.

When you are fighting out of a weak corner, this is NOT what you want to do. You want to challenge the behaviour of the individual without making them responsible for the behaviour of the entire group. If you do so, then they will probably do the same only from a position of strength that you don't have. There are other models to achieving social change. Gandhi understood that, Mandela understood that, Buddhism preaches it and the Dali Lama's living example shows us how to bring it out in each and every one of us on a daily basis, just to point to the obvious tip of the iceberg.

Everywhere I look I see "hardening" and increasing conflict but it is my firm conviction that by cultivating compassion we will achieve better solutions for everyone and we achieve them faster. This doesn't only apply to the big and difficult problems in society but even (and especially) in the interactions we have in our personal lives, at home, at work, with random strangers on the streets (or online). It all starts from bottom up and any way you look at it, real lasting change in society can only be achieved one human interaction at a time.

No single raindrop thinks it is responsible for the flood. This applies when the flood is damaging our society and driving people into fighting each other from trenches (even literally) but at the same time just imagine what would happen if every single raindrop decided to cultivate compassion and respect in their lives.... what kind of a flood would we have then? We have a choice. We ALL have a choice.

I would like to leave you with that thought.

R..

p.s. I apologize for totally derailing this thread. Perhaps a mod would like to split it or something.

 

[Bubblesong]

p.s. I apologize for totally derailing this thread. Perhaps a mod would like to split it or something.

Well they WON'T be moving it to the Men's Forum, (since "Request Denied" by NetDoc, and only the women's posts are allowed in the Women's Forum. However the Pub is too busy fighting Ancient Political Battles dating back to Roman Times to notice, so the men's posts can get stuck there. If you can figure out which posts are which gender because it is not always obvious.