why is zeagle brand looked down upon

[Pez de Diablo]

I am a Ranger owner.

The reason why I don't like the Ranger is because it is an inferior BCD to others that I own.
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So I just want to say that I do have experience with the Ranger and can't extoll it's underwater virtues because other than being well made and floats you on the surface it really doesn't have any.

I am sorry you feel this way about your Ranger. I have been diving a Ranger since 1994 and feel this is one - if not the best BCD ever designed and manufactured. Now let's see, I also dive a Transpac/Trek wing for single tanks, SP nighthawk, SP S Tek Harness w/ DiveRite Trek wing and I have a few Posideon (Eccolift) and Seacsub BCD's in my rental gear that I have tested out. With all these BCD's I never felt like turtling.

Twice in my diving career I did feel like turtling. The first time was when I first started diving, always wanted to go down tank first, then with some experience I found my balance (kinda like riding a bike) and since don't have that problem. I do see this problem with many many other new divers, but I also see them correct this problem with experience.

The second time I felt like a turtle was well into my dive career. I started diving doubles and wow, talk about top heavy. I was head down, then face up, then feet dragging - everything but horizontal and feet up. But with a few hours practice in the pool and a bunch of open water practice dives I can successfully dive without turtling. Some days I will use double al 80's, or LP steel 80's or steel 98's or steel E8-130's and with different size wings. They all dive different but I have learn't that whatever I am diving whether a BP/Wing or a BCD with a few adjustments to my body positioning I can control my trim.

For the last couple of years I am usually in the water 6 days a week doing at least 2 dives a day, gaining experience and having a great time. Most scuba units are top heavy - thats where the tank is. Though some BCD designs position you in the water in a manner that will make it very hard to maintain good trim, it's not just the BCD. Good trim comes with manipulating your body form, adjusting weight positioning and experience, now combined with a well balanced BCD you will minimize the effort you need to maintain good trim. The one thing that seems to be constant with easily maintaining trim is the use of a back inflate (wing style) BCD such as the Ranger. However there are many different body types and many types of BCD's. Try before you buy.

Edit to add:

My Ranger has over 600 dives on it and other than the neon green panels fading a little bit, the BCD is in excellent shape. Yah Yah, It was my first scuba related purchase - I wanted everthing to have neon green on it. Live and learn, now I would go to black on black.

 

[jfoutz]

For the most part, I don’t think people “look down” upon the Zeagle gear. Zeagle has a strong following, but mainly among inland recreational divers. You won’t find many tech divers with the stuff, and you won’t find all that many coastal dive shops with it (relative to shops that carry other brands). This is the situation here in the South at least, and I suspect is likely true in other places.

I don’t look down on the brand, but I also wouldn’t own any of their gear. But I can say that about the vast majority of brands out there that cater to recreational divers. It’s not that I have something in specific against Zeagle, I just have things that I think are “better.” (Also I think the Ranger is ridiculously large…)

 

[OE2X]

Perhaps I should have clarified what I mean by turtling. With the Ranger it means that I and others who have tried it roll to the right. The shoulder straps are always tight and there is an even amount of lead in the pockets as well as on the weight belt.

FWIW - last year I had over 200 dives and this year I've got nearly 70 so far. I am well acquainted with tank placement for making a diver head or rear heavy. In just a few dives I can easily figure out a new piece of gear. I gave this wing a dozen dives to prove itself and it didn't.

One other thing I failed to mention in my other post was how much extra weight has to be carried. When I switched from the Ranger to the Oxycheq and a BP I dropped a total of 10 lbs for the exact same gear configuration minus a can light. I was using a light cannon though with the Ranger which I figure is nearly the same weight as my can light.

The upshot of this is that I wish that I could have tried before I bought. I now have a system that works beautifully for me, but it took wasting a bunch of money on a few BCD's before I finally arrived at the conclusion.

 

[Mako Mark]

For the last couple of years I am usually in the water 6 days a week doing at least 2 dives a day, gaining experience and having a great time. Edit to add:

(sighs and thinks... maybe I should just run away and work for Pez...)

I wanted everthing to have neon green on it.

OTOH...


Green????

 

[simbrooks]

My experiences, good and bad:

Good - i like my Zeagle regs DS-V/ZX (everywhere but upside down) and my DS (which i got for a steal). I also have one of their SS BP's (similar to most others on the market, its only a piece of metal, but it hasnt frayed my webbing too much) and the 34# elastic wing which generally performs well when diving wet on an AL tank. I have found it easy to dump from, hold horizontally and the inflator system seems rock solid. I like the set up i have for singles and doubles (wing is another company). The regs breathe easy in almost all positions, and with the adjustment i can put it just where i want them, nice and lightweight so no jaw fatigue. The DS is really well constructed, robust and a good fit in a stock XL. Incredible customer service thus far both here and on minor stuff in Zephyr. My ex also bought a Zena and the same regs and enjoyed those as well.

Bad - dont like the ZX upside down, it breathes wet. The 34# wing has extra bits that arent required - buckles to hold the wing down to the BP and feeds that go through the straps (which i dont use as i want to change my wings out without unthreading the entire harness) - so i took them off or left them unthreaded (thinking of cutting them off). I am also a little wary of the connection system, compared to others with the mesh and grommets on the wing, so far it hasnt come off UW, but i have had it come loose on land a few times. I now pin the fabric of the connection system under my STA rather than threading it as it aids the swapping of wings. I also dont like the position of the arm dump on the front entry DS, its too far forward and you have to really contort your arm (being horizontal, raising your arm as if flexing your bicep, but not allowing your forearm to be above the elbow, it aint pretty) to use it or go vertical. The molded in boots are a tad large to fit in anything but Turtles or XL Jets for a size 11. I have also rented Rangers and found them way too heavy, bulky a chore to work with compared to normal BP/W systems (i also rented a bunch of other stuff to compare). I had to wear at least 4# more with the Ranger than most other jacket BC's i tried at that time and 6-8# more than the weight i eventually used on my BP/W set-up (which was my first and all Zeagle), i am not so enamoured with the ranger, but i know lots who are.

The future could well see me buying more Zeagle stuff, reg sets when the time comes. If they could get that connection thing sorted i would be willing to look at more wings. My current GF is thinking of buying when she gets out of her OW class, i will advise her on good and bad of all the brands/features as best i know and let her choose her own stuff.

These are just my experiences, both good and bad.

 

[LJinFLA]

Can you tell me more about what you like about the knighthawk versus the Ranger? I have dived a Knight hawk and really liked it, but I have been reading about a looking at the Ranger and it is really attractive to me, though I have not dived on it yet.

Give me some comparative info please.

Lee

 

[OE2X]

Can you tell me more about what you like about the knighthawk versus the Ranger? I have dived a Knight hawk and really liked it, but I have been reading about a looking at the Ranger and it is really attractive to me, though I have not dived on it yet.

Give me some comparative info please.

Lee

1. The Knighthawk doesn't turtle me to the side the way the Ranger does.

2. I like the more compact aspect of it for singles diving

I owned the Knighthawk first. I bought the Ranger thinking I could use it for doubles as well. Perhaps this is true - I have not tried it in such a fashion since I was unhappy with how it performed for singles use. I will say that the knighthawk does not turtle friends when the use it as the ranger does. I've found the knighthawk to be very pleasant to use in warm water conditions where I don't need much weight at all.

Reasons why I don't like the Knighthawk or Ranger:

The reason why I went to the Oxycheq was because I wanted to get the weight more balanced. I have 16#'s on my backplate and 8#'s on my belt. My trim as near perfect as I've ever experienced. I did have in both the Knighthawk and Ranger 10# in each pocket and 5# in each tank pocket. I also had 4# on a weightbelt. What I found was that my trim was effected. I tended to be rather hip heavy.
There are further reasons why I like the Oxycheq but this thread isn't so much about BPW's versus the rest of the world. I leave it by saying that I have had a horse collar, jacket, knighthawk and ranger and all of these pushed me into buying a BPW for which I'm finally very satisfied with.

 

[USIA]

Wow...we couldn't ask for better product endorsement than this thread!!

Honestly, I would guess that the dive shop in question wasn't a Zeagle dealer, and therefore had no way of selling you the BC you wanted.

Instead of saying, "Well, we don't sell Zeagle, so I can't help you with that particular product", they went with the "That gear sucks - here try this far superior BC that I just HAPPEN to have in stock" response. Stuff happens...what can you do??

If they ARE a Zeagle dealer, I would love to know the name of the shop. You can either respond in this thread or PM me...

If you have any questions about Zeagle gear or need to find an authorized dealer, let me know and I will try to help you out!

Thanks for posting this instead of simply buying in to the info you got from that shop!

Scott

As a manufacturer, I can vouch for the way Zeagle handles their customer service. They do an outstanding job, and also make a great product. I've been diving the same Zeagle Ranger for the last 5 years with no complaints or issues

 

[The Chairman]

You know...

I have taught students wearing a Ranger, and they LOVE them. They fit without having to re-invent the wheel. I am coming to the point of buying a full outfit of new gear for my students, and you can bet that Scott's gear will be given a LOT of thought. I never experienced the "turtle" issue with them, but I had less than a dozen dives. I was warned that their "ripcord" weight release system was very complex. I guess the gal who told me that had a far lower than average IQ. I found it very simple.

Their regs are awesome and have been used by cavers for years. That alone speaks of their reliability.

You know #2...

Nothing destroys the credibility of an LDS quicker than denigrating manufacturers that they don't carry. An "I don't know" is FAR better than some lame lies couched in such a way as to cast doubt on a great product. I understand that times are tough for the LDS, but this kind of deception only hurts them in the long run. Employees should be counseled to always be upfront.

You know #3...

it don't get much better than this. Here we have a thread that presents both positive AND negative opinions about a manufacturer and a specific BCD. I think this is what makes this board so unique and relevant. Even though Zeagle is an advertiser, they know that they won't get any "protection" from those who don't like thier products. This means that our collective take is not biased by the almighty dollar. You can be sure that these are real opinions by real divers and nothing less!

 

[ScottZeagle]

You know #3...

it don't get much better than this. Here we have a thread that presents both positive AND negative opinions about a manufacturer and a specific BCD. I think this is what makes this board so unique and relevant. Even though Zeagle is an advertiser, they know that they won't get any "protection" from those who don't like thier products. This means that our collective take is not biased by the almighty dollar. You can be sure that these are real opinions by real divers and nothing less!

I am fine with the idea that "you can't please all of the people all of the time". I think that ScubaBoard is good for Zeagle, and vice versa. I will take the negative comments, as they are far outweighed on this forum by the positive. I have taken care of a number of ScubaBoard members with small and easily fixable problems, and in turn they spread the word that Zeagle takes care of the people who dive the gear. It is a "win-win" situation, in my honest opinion.

From previous dealings with "OE2X", I feel that he is much more upset about the fact that he has been unable to sell his used Ranger BC than anything else. If anyone is looking for a Ranger BC, please contact him. Although I am sure that he did experience the so called "turtling" effect, it is not a common complant. If it was, I believe our company and its sales reps would hear about it more...the truth is, we don't. :06:

As far as ScubaBoard "advertising protection", I would expect nothing less than an unbiased report on our gear. We have recieved numerous "Tester's Choice and "Best Buys" from Scuba Diving Magazine, yet you never see a Zeagle ad in there....

I have said it before, and I'm sure this will not be the last time - no matter what gear you dive, the important thing is that you get out and DO IT! If you have a friend or relative that might be interested, get them to sign up for classes, show them some underwater photos or videos - peak their interest!!! In relation to other sports, we are very small and need to promote diving as much as possible!!! :dazzler1:

Dive safe,

Scott