Why is becoming a DM considered not worth it?

[arew+4]

So I confess I have not read all 140 or so posts. So sorry if you've heard this before. I would suggest you find a place with good inexpensive shore diving, it does not get cheaper than that. Immerse your self in the local diving community, maybe try to get part time employment in the industry to extend your stay a bit. If you go to a bathtub destination like Bonaire or Curacao, get self reliant/solo cert, maximize your bottom time. No better teacher than experience. If after a month or so you feel like this is the life for you, start the instructor path. Otherwise make memories til you run out of cash, then join the rat race. After all hundreds of millions of wage slaves can't be wrong.

 

[rjack321]

I don't understand how this is ********. Of course you pay for the course, it's a course, doesn't it work like that in every place and every field?
Of course you get duty of care for baby divers isn't that the job?
Most work in life is working for someone else or someone else's company
What are you saying?

You'll fit right into the scuba industry. Can you eat, live and retire on the $5/day you'll make in tips?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I have been away for a few days, and I see this thread is still going, which would be hard to believe except ... this is ScubaBoard, and we have so many really knowledgeable folks who are eager to share their knowledge and opinions. @Isa.nerwen , I'm impressed you have continued to listen. We do mean well!

As I see it, Thailand is where one goes to party on the beach while taking a course to justify why they are there for so long. I do not believe Thailand is the best place to get quality dive training that will make one a better diver. I am guessing in your previous trips you did the partying thing, and maybe you have gotten that out of your system. But you seem intent to do this training in Thailand, and so, I say "why not."

What's I don't understand is that in my experience so far (not a lot I admit, I have been with about 5 different dive shops so far) I've always found instructors that were really helpful, giving a tips etc - why would that change when doing DMT? Will they not still help you improve?

My reasoning why my diving would improve while doing DMT is simply that I would get to dive a lot, amongst learning all the other things.

Instructors cannot help you reach a skill level that they themselves have not attained. Unless your instructor is a tech diver, they are unlikely to care much about perfecting skills such as horizontal trim and controlled ascents (ie, buoyancy). Their attitude would not be wrong; for most recreational divers, even divemasters, tech-level performance is simply not needed, so why waste time with that? As a recreational diver, you don't really need to ascend with such good control that you could stop every 3 meters and hold that depth in perfect horizontal trim if you wished to. Indeed, maintaining horizontal trim is often counterproductive on a recreational dive, such as when you're drifting along a wall and you want to take in the view up and down the wall in all its majesty.

I think I'm mostly looking at trick and tips, like if I do DMT i would ask my instructor things like "what do you think about my trim? How can I improve it?" and this sort of things.

See above! Your instructor, unless they are also a tech diver AND a bit obsessive in how they teach the DM course, may simply react with a shrug or tell you your trim is just fine, and that would be completely understandable.

So my plan is to go to Thailand and I'm targeting dive schools that also offer tech courses so I can check directly when I'm there.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Try to work with an instructor who (1) is trained in and does tech diving on a regular basis and (2) who is willing to work with you to help you attain a tech level of performance. I would not count on just any instructor teaching an Intro-to-Tech course in which enough time is spent on honing performance. The curriculum of an intro to tech-type course likely also includes the mechanics of tech diving--the kit, etc.--and that is perhaps less relevant if your goal is simply to become a better, higher-performing recreational diver.

I took a course that some might characterize as an intro to tech type course (GUE Fundamentals), with the express intent of simply becoming a better recreational diver, and I was pleased with the results. Just as one (useful, I think) example, I learned to move toward whatever small creature or coral head I wanted to gaze at and arrest my forward motion with a small back-kick when I arrived at the distance I wanted to be at, then maintain my orientation and position in the water, perhaps just inches above the bottom, without excessive finning or stirring up the bottom. While enjoying the viewing, divers with less well-honed skills will sometimes arrive to see what I am looking at and flail around, unable to do what I describe. I'm not bragging--I'm still hardly the most skilled diver out there--but I can say these are really great skills for a recreational diver to have in their tool kit.

 

[ginti]

I really value the personal factor too so I really need to meet the instructors, I can't really chose on the internet like that

Never said you should choose on the internet. You absolutely shouldn't.

But yeah if I choose an instructor with tech diving experience too they should be good. I hope I'll like them haha

This is not a hint of a good instructor. There are terrible tech instructors out there.

Choosing the right instructor requires:
1 - personal feeling (you need to get along well with the instructor)
2 - instructor diving skills (the instructor must be an excellent diver)
3 - instructor teaching skills in the context of diving

2 and 3 are especially hard. They absolutely require a search or even a thread

 

[wlecyt40]

PADI has built their entire business model around folks like you, enjoy.

I have built my entire adult life around helping others. This is from being in the US Army to being a paramedic to being a training technician and instructor in my job I have now. If I could walk away from everything, I would do it, in a heartbeat!! My wife is the same. The only thing that keeps us from doing it is grandkids, bills and that we are by no mean independently wealthy. If PADI builds their business plan around people like us, so be it. I will truly enjoy it!!

 

[Isa.nerwen]

You'll fit right into the scuba industry. Can you eat, live and retire on the $5/day you'll make in tips?

You aren't answering anything and you didn't even read my post lol

 

[Isa.nerwen]

I have been away for a few days, and I see this thread is still going, which would be hard to believe except ... this is ScubaBoard, and we have so many really knowledgeable folks who are eager to share their knowledge and opinions. @Isa.nerwen , I'm impressed you have continued to listen. We do mean well!

As I see it, Thailand is where one goes to party on the beach while taking a course to justify why they are there for so long. I do not believe Thailand is the best place to get quality dive training that will make one a better diver. I am guessing in your previous trips you did the partying thing, and maybe you have gotten that out of your system. But you seem intent to do this training in Thailand, and so, I say "why not."


Instructors cannot help you reach a skill level that they themselves have not attained. Unless your instructor is a tech diver, they are unlikely to care much about perfecting skills such as horizontal trim and controlled ascents (ie, buoyancy). Their attitude would not be wrong; for most recreational divers, even divemasters, tech-level performance is simply not needed, so why waste time with that? As a recreational diver, you don't really need to ascend with such good control that you could stop every 3 meters and hold that depth in perfect horizontal trim if you wished to. Indeed, maintaining horizontal trim is often counterproductive on a recreational dive, such as when you're drifting along a wall and you want to take in the view up and down the wall in all its majesty.

See above! Your instructor, unless they are also a tech diver AND a bit obsessive in how they teach the DM course, may simply react with a shrug or tell you your trim is just fine, and that would be completely understandable.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Try to work with an instructor who (1) is trained in and does tech diving on a regular basis and (2) who is willing to work with you to help you attain a tech level of performance. I would not count on just any instructor teaching an Intro-to-Tech course in which enough time is spent on honing performance. The curriculum of an intro to tech-type course likely also includes the mechanics of tech diving--the kit, etc.--and that is perhaps less relevant if your goal is simply to become a better, higher-performing recreational diver.

I took a course that some might characterize as an intro to tech type course (GUE Fundamentals), with the express intent of simply becoming a better recreational diver, and I was pleased with the results. Just as one (useful, I think) example, I learned to move toward whatever small creature or coral head I wanted to gaze at and arrest my forward motion with a small back-kick when I arrived at the distance I wanted to be at, then maintain my orientation and position in the water, perhaps just inches above the bottom, without excessive finning or stirring up the bottom. While enjoying the viewing, divers with less well-honed skills will sometimes arrive to see what I am looking at and flail around, unable to do what I describe. I'm not bragging--I'm still hardly the most skilled diver out there--but I can say these are really great skills for a recreational diver to have in their tool kit.

I am reading everything because I am interested in what people have to say.
Also sorry I am not really good in quoting the comments (maybe because I am on the phone)
I will say Thailand is not only about the partying, my plan is probably to go to Koh Lipe which is a tiny island and doesn't really have much partying. But, I do want to live the lifestyle for a bit and that certainly includes a small amount of partying/ chilling - I mean it's hard work and fun.
I decided on Thailand because I've been diving before with the school so I know it already and I know the island and it suits me.
I don't really want to go somewhere knew and the other dive school I've been to were not available/I wouldn't want to back to.

I will definitely look into intro to tech, but you are right that for the time being I am not interested in all the stuff that comes with tech diving, nor I am experienced enough. I know that is something that in general interests me, and people say that intro to tech would be good to actually improve.

The last part of you message is interesting as I still struggle with wha you describe, stopping to look at something small I wouldn't know where to find GUE fundamentals and I prefer to stay with Padi for the moment though.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The last part of you message is interesting as I still struggle with wha you describe, stopping to look at something small I wouldn't know where to find GUE fundamentals and I prefer to stay with Padi for the moment though.

It's all good. As I tried to sum it up in a post a few days ago, I suggest you stick with your plans, go to Thailand, sign up for the DM course of your choice (perhaps with a little forethought in choosing the right instructor, as has been suggested), work hard, play hard, and see how it goes. If after the Thailand experience you still feel something is lacking, you can again get an earful of further advice right here.

I think all of us who have commented on your plans need to put this in perspective. It's not like this is some life-changing decision, and if you don't get it right there will be lasting negative consequences. You WILL have fun, and you WILL learn some things. As you know, going to Thailand to take the DM course is a well-trodden path. You will have opportunities in the years to come to try other paths if you feel a need. Good luck and have fun!

 

[lostsheep]

One of the best snow seasons of my life was spent working 60 hours a week for minimum wage , hitchhiking to work in blizzards, half way starving because I was poor, and living with 15 roommates in a 2 bedroom house. Would I do it now? Hell no, but at 18 with no responsibilities hell yeah.

If diving was my hobby then it would have been a dive resort and not a ski resort.

If you want to do it, do it. Who cares what anyone else says? You’ll be poor but it will be a lot of fun and you’ll do a lot of diving even if it’s baby sitting. It’s not like it’s a career change, it’s an extended vacation.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I have been away for a few days, and I see this thread is still going, which would be hard to believe except ... this is ScubaBoard, and we have so many really knowledgeable folks who are eager to share their knowledge and opinions. @Isa.nerwen , I'm impressed you have continued to listen. We do mean well!

As I see it, Thailand is where one goes to party on the beach while taking a course to justify why they are there for so long. I do not believe Thailand is the best place to get quality dive training that will make one a better diver. I am guessing in your previous trips you did the partying thing, and maybe you have gotten that out of your system. But you seem intent to do this training in Thailand, and so, I say "why not."


Instructors cannot help you reach a skill level that they themselves have not attained. Unless your instructor is a tech diver, they are unlikely to care much about perfecting skills such as horizontal trim and controlled ascents (ie, buoyancy). Their attitude would not be wrong; for most recreational divers, even divemasters, tech-level performance is simply not needed, so why waste time with that? As a recreational diver, you don't really need to ascend with such good control that you could stop every 3 meters and hold that depth in perfect horizontal trim if you wished to. Indeed, maintaining horizontal trim is often counterproductive on a recreational dive, such as when you're drifting along a wall and you want to take in the view up and down the wall in all its majesty.

See above! Your instructor, unless they are also a tech diver AND a bit obsessive in how they teach the DM course, may simply react with a shrug or tell you your trim is just fine, and that would be completely understandable.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Try to work with an instructor who (1) is trained in and does tech diving on a regular basis and (2) who is willing to work with you to help you attain a tech level of performance. I would not count on just any instructor teaching an Intro-to-Tech course in which enough time is spent on honing performance. The curriculum of an intro to tech-type course likely also includes the mechanics of tech diving--the kit, etc.--and that is perhaps less relevant if your goal is simply to become a better, higher-performing recreational diver.

I took a course that some might characterize as an intro to tech type course (GUE Fundamentals), with the express intent of simply becoming a better recreational diver, and I was pleased with the results. Just as one (useful, I think) example, I learned to move toward whatever small creature or coral head I wanted to gaze at and arrest my forward motion with a small back-kick when I arrived at the distance I wanted to be at, then maintain my orientation and position in the water, perhaps just inches above the bottom, without excessive finning or stirring up the bottom. While enjoying the viewing, divers with less well-honed skills will sometimes arrive to see what I am looking at and flail around, unable to do what I describe. I'm not bragging--I'm still hardly the most skilled diver out there--but I can say these are really great skills for a recreational diver to have in their tool kit.

I think you hit a lot of points right on here.
The difference I see with standard recreational training and tech training, especially when it comes to propulsion techniques, is in the tech world you see the divers always (almost always) in flat trim with feet up in the sky diver position doing anti silting modified frog kicks, back kicks, helicopter turns, pretty much all movement is done with finning. This was born out of caving and wreck diving where they need to be extremely careful not to upset everything and silt out the place, cause a disruption in a wreck by breaking something off or getting entangled, etc. This is where critical control and keen sense of situational awareness must be perfected and practiced.
In recreational diving you will see more from the hip alternate standard fin kicks and the diver would be flat with arms back and legs straight back cruising like a torpedo. This would be the standard in a perfect world (born out of skindiving). Unfortunately now days you see a lot of 45 degree bicycle kicking rototillers.
But for my thinking, to apply a full blown tech style technique to being a recreation dive master seems a little excessive. There could be a happy balance.
It is possible to learn and practice excellent in-water diving skills without needing to go through a whole tech program, but some tech oriented stuff would definitely be good.
There’s also the fact that not all recreational techniques are bad habits. For instance coming up, I don’t see anything wrong with getting vertical on ascent to be able to look up down all around to keep track of your flock. I other words, not all recreational techniques are bad habits in the recreational world, but they may be considered bad habits in the technical world. Technical protocols are much more rigid.
For DM’ing I think the bigger picture is learning cool headedness and stress control especially when it comes to all the drama that can be encountered, tourist freaks out and needs assistance, problems on the surface, boat drama, broken gear, etc.
Survival skills and rescue skills are very important assets for a DM and also good people skills. Situational awareness comes into play not just for yourself, but for your entire group. That’s a lot!
As a working DM you are it, the go to person, you need to be able to own it.
DM will make you a better diver when it comes to managing people for sure and all the skills needed to do that both in-water and out. There might be great technical divers with spot on skills but would absolutely suck and being a DM,
DM is a special skill set.
OP, I think it’s great you’re doing it!