Why I won't dive with you.

[rottielover]

I am always willing to be proved wrong, but until then will err on the side of caution. If you are as fit as you say, I would be glad to dive with you, provided I felt I was capable of managing you in an emergency situation. ...

This post is the perfect example of an open mind...


EDIT:
@erparamedic - Thanks, Mark Twain (Samuel Clemons) said that...

 

[NadMat]

This has been a very interseting thread to read on the eve of my departure to the great open waters of the South African east coast...

I am a new Diver...
I am a solo diver (in terms of not having regular dive buddies/scholl I dive with)
.....but will never dive on my own (not yet)
I am also a nervous diver...

The question that comes to mind after reading this post is "Would you dive with me?"

I am not in perfect physical shape, though I am slender and have a BMI of 28, run charity marathons twice a year and smoke 10 cigs a day (on average).

Because of the fact that I have only had 1/12 dives that made me feel a part of the environment I was in, and the fact that there is often something I am battling with when I dive, I am not comfortable with myself.

I want to do as many dives as I can to get to know myself underwater and better myself for the sake of the environment, my buddies and the fun of diving. I have found a charter that has the best person-to-person I ever encountered on a trip, but that only lasts while we are above water. Once you drop backwards of the boat, it's you and you alone.

I check for my buddies, always know where they are, where they are going - but what do I do when they wonder off ? (Follow them or the DM)
When I have issues with my boyancy, who do I ask to wait for me? (My buddy or the DM)

I have terminated several dives and serviced on my own because it's to much to ask of a buddy to service with me.

Am I the only one that feels this way ?

Reading your responses - you have pretty high standards that you expect of your buddies. How does that fit in with the new guys?

Anyways - I am off to the coast till sunday and hope to get back here with pics and stories to share and show why we all love diving

I think most divers are understanding of new divers and willing to dive with a beginner, we were all there once, and is fun to 'pass the torch' so to speak. I would much rather dive with a beginner who realizes they have limits and wishes to cautiously explore them rather than the 'superdiver' who feels they know it all and can do no wrong.

If I am diving with a buddy, we either stay down together or come up together, if we loose one another for whatever reason we will be meeting on the surface shortly, after making a safe ascent. If that is not what is happening in your case, you are 'solo diving with same ocean buddy', not always a bad thing, but you want know that is the case before you get in the water, not find out mid dive.

I was lucky in that dad dove, and so had an experienced buddy from start of diving, and have been able to find other great buddies as journeyed through life. If I am diving with an instabuddy, I think of it as solo diving with added liability until have some measure of their abilities.

 

[NadMat]

NadMat...

I understand what you are saying about providing emergency care. It just makes sense...

Let me also say that I spent 10 years on a fire dept prior to the ER (only left the FD due to better pay/benefits... also met my hubby there)... and spent a period of time weighing more than I do now. I am female and could keep up with the guys just fine... and had all the respect of my peers. Myself and my various ambulance partners have many times carried 300 lb + people down flights of stairs, pulled them out of mangled metal heaps (previously known as a car), etc. I understand safety, and the toll that a person's size can take on another.

Let me say, I weigh less than 300 lbs (and look like I weigh less than what I do)... but I would not hesitate to dive with someone that was 300 lbs... providing they took at least all the safety measures that I do (predive planning, staying with buddy, not pushing the limits, etc), and are always willing to learn... I learn something new on every dive I make. Now, that said.... ANYONE, regardless of weight, that can't carry their own equiptment, gear up without getting winded, make the swim out before decending, etc, etc... COULD be a risk to dive with.

One shouldn't get cought up on another's weight. We are all out there to have fun. You are completely entitled to your own opinion. I would hope though, that when among fellow divers, that you don't voice your opinions about obese divers out loud. I have thick skin, but others may not.

I would only voice my concerns aloud if it was required as explanation as to why I choose not to buddy with them, and then would try to keep it between us. If you are not 'my' buddy there is no reason for me to voice my concerns or opinions about your weight or anything else that does not affect me personally. I may not enjoy watching an overstuffed bundle of neoprene as much as a hottie in a bikini, but some may not enjoy seeing my ugly face unmasked when I roll out of water No reason for either of us to stop diving, be offended or make rude comments about each other, at least till we know one another better

I just know that 300 lbs in a remote location without other divers to help could be difficult for me to manage, no matter what the fitness level of other diver before an emergency, so I would avoid that situation. If there were another buddy pair along than I might reconsider, depending on buddy pair, as I would with a better location.

One of my current buddies is far from being svelt and fit specimen, but I know him, his experience level and limitations and only give him occasional grief about his 'pony keg' abs and I know for a fact I can lift his dead weight and carry it a ways due to 'drinking related emergency' but he runs about 270 and it ain't easy, so am not looking to find out whether could do 300 by myself.

 

[Thalassamania]

I have to give credit where credit is due. When we were on the boat coming back from the Catalina Lab after the AAUS Dive Computer Workshop there were two conversation threads going on, both basically moderated by Bruce Bassett simultaneously. One was based on the "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche," but it was "Real Divers ..." Someone said "Real divers pee in their wetsuit." and (of course) someone added "Real divers pee in their dry-suits," this was pre-P-valve (now say that 5 times fast, pre-P-valve; pre-P-valve; pre-P-valve; pre-P-valve; pre-P-valve), to which Bruce added, "Real divers pee in the wet suit on the deck,” to which someone who will remain nameless, because they are clearly very sick and twisted, said, "real divers wear their boots inside their wetsuit so that when they pee in their wetsuit on the deck it runs out in a puddle.

BTW: the other thread was writing the manual for the Divers Inwater Computer (DIC), we had spent an entire session deciding what to call them and the impish side had gotten a hold of me (and Bruce) and we lobbied hard for DIC, loosing out the cooler, but much less amusing, Dive Computer favored by Bill Hamilton and Mike Lang. Anyway, Bruce and I go the group going writing the users manual for the DIC, which involved instructions such as, "when you buddies DIC goes down you may be able to restart it by licking your fingers and stroking it." (Remember the wet-touch contacts?), I really wish we'd recorded that trip, we got to the mainland in actual pain from laughing so hard.

 

[Mo2vation]

This thread has NOT gone down the tubes, This is a thread about people you won't go diving with, and being a public forum you should be expected to be challenged on, and evaluate your views. It's the mark of a good diver (insert any keyword for diver) to always evaluate the situation and your viewpoints, in a nutshell, to "keep an open mind". I do not see how challenging a viewpoint is degrading this discussion in anyway. Rather I feel it's helpful to evaluate.

Now that being said:



What, are you hooking every instabuddy up to an EKG? Are you making them blow into a BAC meter (Blood alcohol content)? (Yes there really are people that can look and act stone cold sober whilst being drunk). I don't understand how you can x-ray vision an instabuddy and know their health / fitness level.



No code, it's common sense. Of course you use your own judgment; I'm just trying to get people to open their eyes and minds to possibilities. If you see someone pass out from trying to get into a wetsuit, you probably wouldn't want to buddy with them. If you see someone jump off the boat without a tank on their back, they probably don't have good safety check skills. If the objective of the dive is "to get wet", that's probably a good sign of things not going to go well. See how silly this is?



So that guy on the boat with 6-pack abs that knows exactly how to setup his gear, completes all the dive safety checks etc. is going to be a good buddy, cause everything you've observed on the boat tells you so. Despite that you jump in and find that they cannot control buoyancy at all.... I don't see how looking at someone, assuming that they are over ideal body weight (you hooking them up to a BMI as well?), automatically makes them "high risk".



An open mind is open to at least the POSSIBILITY of being wrong, and thus the posibility of change.

I need to add a #5 to the list. I won't dive with Backpack Hippies.

If you're diving a BackPack and no BC, no octo, no SPG and a J valve - have a great dive with someone else, SeaHunt.

This is pretty cool. Its gone from 3 to 5 in an afternoon.

I like it.

1) I won't dive with Rebreather divers

2) I won't dive with Hunters

3) I won't dive with the Morbidly Obese

4) I won't dive with those who pee in their wetsuits... whilst on deck

5) I won't dive with Backpack Hippies


This is shaping up quite nicely.

---
Ken

 

[mobster75]

...to which someone who will remain nameless, because they are clearly very sick and twisted, said, "real divers wear their boots inside their wetsuit so that when they pee in their wetsuit on the deck it runs out in a puddle.

You're supposed to wear your boots OUTSIDE your wetsuit legs!?!? Hmmm... I've been wearing my boots UNDER my wetsuit legs since day 1..... But then again, I don't pee in my wetsuit.......on deck.

 

[SoCalAngel]

Anyway, here's my list of who I won't dive with:

* Diver who is upset because I called the dive.

* Diver who is a "danger" junky, and always wants to go deeper, or push some risk limit just for the thrill. Or the nark junky.

* Diver who no-shows or is consistantly late and doesn't call.

* Diver who always builds themselves up (ego) by constantly berating other divers gear, skills, etc. I've seen a DIR diver do this to non-DIR divers, and a non-DIR diver do this to DIR'ers. If you're Mister Great Diver you don't have to tell us about it. Your skills will soon show it.

* Diver who can't control their language. I'm not talking about the occasional expletive here, but the person who's mouth loudly spews out the F word every other word in mixed company without consideration for others.

* Diver who remains totally unaware of buddy, even after discussing the issue. These divers have to be chased down during the dive, never notice their buddy, are always getting separated, and finish the dive solo.

One more note. It's possible to overlook some of these if said dive has a nice boat.


What's your list?

Wow! You totally described my last dive/my last buddy from Dec. '05. No wonder I am too freaked out to get back in the water!

Ok, so who out there, hasn't been one of the above at on e time or another, AND will dive with me? :blinking: I soooooo need to get back in the water...

 

[CompuDude]

This has been a very interseting thread to read on the eve of my departure to the great open waters of the South African east coast...

I am a new Diver...
I am a solo diver (in terms of not having regular dive buddies/school I dive with)
.....but will never dive on my own (not yet)
I am also a nervous diver...

The question that comes to mind after reading this post is "Would you dive with me?"
<snip>

I'd dive with you, as someone else pointed out, under the right conditions.

Knowing I am going in with a new diver ahead of time changes expectations considerably. I would most likely not choose to dive with you if I was going into the water at a new, exciting and exotic location that I was dying to photograph. That situation calls for either a solo or to be buddied with another photographer who dives the same way I do (like Catherine says, solo-with-partner). But a routine beach dive in a common area, with good conditions, and perhaps the second dive of the day? Sure, I have no objections to leading you around a bit. I won't even complain when your air consumption turns the dive while I still have 3/4 of a tank left, because I went in knowing it would be a short dive, and hey, I was there once. In fact, sometimes that's a fun way to get two dives off of one tank. But the conditions have to be right, and I have to be in the mood to dive with a new diver. Frequently, I truly don't mind, but sometimes, I'll admit it's more than I want to take on for a given dive.

If you bill yourself as a super diver (yazrick, clearly this section is not aimed at you), and then charge around with no regard for others (or the wildlife), and suck down your tank in 20 minutes, I'll not likely dive with you again. Unless I'm really desperate to get wet and not in a place where I want to go solo.

I also will not willingly dive with "full-speed ahead" divers who can't handle diving with photographers, because they don't fit in their dive plan (Dive to destination alpha. Stop. Return to starting point. No stops in between allowed.). I like to take my time and really look at my surroundings, even if I'm not taking pictures. Otherwise I'd just do laps in a pool and save myself the effort and hassle of loading all that gear. Similar arguments to hunters, unless I happen to be hunting as well, of course.

 

[IslandCowgirl]

I disagree, nothing beats a good surface pee.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I think it should be said, the best way to tell what kind of diver your buddy is, is to see them in the water. I've been surprised a few times by divers I've seen on the boat being totally disorganized and appearing out of shape but they were terrific once they dropped.