Why do so many poorly skilled divers...

[tstormdiver]

I did my course through SSI. Not only were we tested for our diving skills, but (within the 20% hat SSI allows the instructor freedom to teach) we were put through a " stress test" where we had instructors pulling regulators out of our mouths, shutting tanks off, ripping off masks & fins other such stuff, for about 1/2 an hour solid. The instructors wanted to make sure we could handle about anything sent our way.

 

[The Kraken]

Because, for many of those mentioned, they want to belly up to the bar, steer the conversation in the direction of scuba diving and then loudly, so that all in the bar can hear, proclaim that the person in whose presence all other are, is a DIVE MASTER !!!.

Probably the same ones who get on scuba diving web sites and ask what kind of swim fins the Navy SEALS wear.

In short, self aggrandizement . . .

the K

 

[MikeFerrara]

I did my course through SSI. Not only were we tested for our diving skills, but (within the 20% hat SSI allows the instructor freedom to teach) we were put through a " stress test" where we had instructors pulling regulators out of our mouths, shutting tanks off, ripping off masks & fins other such stuff, for about 1/2 an hour solid. The instructors wanted to make sure we could handle about anything sent our way.

How were your dive skills tested and how does that testing relate to the actual standards?

Are SSI standards published online someplace? I'll have to take a look when I get home from work.

 

[tstormdiver]

Our diving skills test included the basic skills of mask removal/ replacement & clearing, BCD removal/ replacement, regulator removal, retrieval & cleaning, OOA drills, emergency swimming accents- all of these had to be of demonstration quality, gas & dive planning & buoyancy control (we were docked if we changed depth by more than a couple of feet & if we touched bottom..... ugh!....). We then were taken on a dive where the instructor & the ones training to become Dive Con Instructors presented us with several "issues" that could be encountered in real life (navigation skills, straying from dive plan, diver trying to enter an overhead environment,, uncontrolled ascent/ descent......) I looked online on SSI's site (not saying I just couldn't have missed it), but did not see anything online where one might find the standards online (may be in the professional's log- in area) , I read them in my Dive Con manual. From what I remember reading of the standards, we actually covered more than what was required in the standards (as you know, in some areas the standards can be very specific & in other areas, they can be a bit vague (to allow for instructor freedom to enhance the course).

 

[Stichus III]

I think there is an ego thing at work here:

How dare you call yourself a Dive Master when are not nearly as experienced a diver like I am (and I obviously believe I’m a dive God).

People, get over yourselves.

In diving, like in all walks of life, people who we once saw as beginners, become more and more proficient and in some instances even surpass our own skills and levels of training. That does not make us any less good of a diver, but some people clearly can’t deal with this type of situation. I see this often in my own work environment (not diving; I’m only an AOW diver J) and I'm also seeing it in this thread.

Also, diving experience of 60 dives, says very little about the skills of a diver. A diver that has done 60 dives over a period of 5 years, probably still has the skills of a beginner, while a diver that has done 60 dives over a period of 3 months, is most likely a very proficient diver. Of course, where these dives were done, is also relevant. In any event, the general assertion that a diving experience of 60 dives is not enough to become a DM, is non sense.

 

[Web Monkey]

It really is terrible isn't it. I hear that 50% of the people are below average!

Yeah, but the other 50% are pretty good.

Terry

 

[RiverRat]

Guarantee you one thing...none of them probably went through a Fundies course prior to enrolling as a DM.

X

I wouldn't guarantee it. Fundies is not a magic bullet. I've heard many a story about many a diver that shouldn't have been in a Fundies course in the first place. They fail miserably and then get on the internet as some kind of diving wizard. It takes time in the water, practice and dedication. The problem is that many LDS' pump their divers right through OW up to DM and Instructor. They haven't had time, or dedicated themselves to just practicing the basics of good diving and getting in that important dive time. It's got to be fixed early on. Re-design OW/AOW and throw in Fundies skills and you might have something.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think there is an ego thing at work here:

How dare you call yourself a Dive Master when are not nearly as experienced a diver like I am (and I obviously believe I’m a dive God).

People, get over yourselves.

In diving, like in all walks of life, people who we once saw as beginners, become more and more proficient and in some instances even surpass our own skills and levels of training. That does not make us any less good of a diver, but some people clearly can’t deal with this type of situation. I see this often in my own work environment (not diving; I’m only an AOW diver J) and I'm also seeing it in this thread.

By the agencies own description, a DM should be a role model and have model skills. By definition, they supervise. However we want to define a "good diver" they should be one right out of the DM gait.

Also, diving experience of 60 dives, says very little about the skills of a diver. A diver that has done 60 dives over a period of 5 years, probably still has the skills of a beginner, while a diver that has done 60 dives over a period of 3 months, is most likely a very proficient diver. Of course, where these dives were done, is also relevant. In any event, the general assertion that a diving experience of 60 dives is not enough to become a DM, is non sense.

The number of dives a diver has is not a very good measure of actual experience. After all we have those aspireing DM and instructor candidates who will go to the local dive site and do 15 or 20, 5 minute dives/day to meet the experience requirements.

I'm not kidding, I have seen this many many times. Once at 40 fathom Grotto, there were two divers who would descend to the shallow platform and just kneel there for 20 minutes (they thought the dive had to be 20 minutes to count. They would ascend and then drop back down and do it again. I couldn't help it, I had to ask them what they were doing. they came right out and told us that they were working on their 100 dives they needed to become instructors. they were just sitting on the shallow platform so they could stretch a tank of air for as many dives as possible.

I have no reason to believe that those two are not currently teaching others to "dive".

I've also seen instructors who wanted to teach tec courses doing a bunch of bounce dives in a quarry to get their experience requirements. Obviously that may meet standards but not the intent of the standards. If their instructor trainer is sharp, they'll know and simply refuse to accept those dives. In my own case, however, no one ever actually looked at my log. I could have gotten through without even having the bounce dives.

This is common stuff. I've caught my own students trying to pull the same thing. One girl was a good diver. As soon as she finished her DM training she decided to do an IDC. Once that CD got hold of her, she baught into the "meet the letter of the standards and pump them through" attitude. I tried to get her back by having her teach a couple of classes for me but she had forgotten how she got so good and wanted to pump them studedents through bu the book. I think I had her teach two classes before I gave up.

Ego? Not hardly. There are divers who I certified early in my teaching and, though I followed standards to the letter, they weren't any good when I certified them. I can only hope that they have since quit diving or lucked into a good instructor or mentor. I still worry that one of these days the phone will ring or I'll read about one of them in the accidents forum. I'm not at all proud of having taught that way. The only defense I have it to say that I did the best I could with what I knew at the time based on my own training and experience (which wasn't much).

 

[Kingpatzer]

I think there's a certain ego thing going on in the question "How dare someone call themselves a professional when they're not as good as I am at <insert skill here>"

Being a DM (in PADI, not NAUI), means you have the skills to recognize another diver having problems and help in some way, can lead a dive, can assist in a class. Basically, you're at the level of a student teacher in school.

Do you go to your children's schools, notice the college junior helping with the class and ask "How dare this kid call themselves a teacher, they don't know nearly as much as I do?!"

Well, then, if it bothers you, belly up to the damn bar, get your professional certifications, and become part of the solution to the problem you see.

New DMs are people who are starting down the path of becoming a diver professional. Like all professions, there is a starting level where people learn the basics of doing that skill. (which is why I won't let interns or residents perform medical procedures on me, but that's another discussion ) And that can take a long time for some folks. Some people will never go beyond that point.

We all agree that the most important aspect of any class is the instructor, but we don't want a large pool of people competing to fill the next instructor slot becuase some of them don't have the skill level we believe (usually incorrectly) is necessary for their current level?

Personally, I wish every diver would pursue the DM certification as soon as they feel they're ready. Doing so would raise the level of diving in general and would give an even bigger pool of people to pursue instructor ratings.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I wouldn't guarantee it. Fundies is not a magic bullet. I've heard many a story about many a diver that shouldn't have been in a Fundies course in the first place. They fail miserably and then get on the internet as some kind of diving wizard. It takes time in the water, practice and dedication.

No magic to fundies. I've watched a couple of classes and most divers seem to do poorly including those who are already instructors. The only magic is that they are provided some important information that they had not been given before. Many are, for the VERY FIRST TIME, seeing divers who can really control their position and movement in the water.

Many of them (I don't know how many) team up with other DIRF students and they practice together on a regular basis. In a matter of weeks, they improve by light-years.

The problem is that many LDS' pump their divers right through OW up to DM and Instructor. They haven't had time, or dedicated themselves to just practicing the basics of good diving and getting in that important dive time.

We have to define what is a "problem" here. The "system" was designed specifically so that divers can be pumped through this way. Things are going exactly as planned. What problem?

It's got to be fixed early on. Re-design OW/AOW and throw in Fundies skills and you might have something.

Of course but that will happen about the time pigs sprout wings and fly.