RiverRat:
Hey, didn't he just tell you not to.... you're not planning on... no, tell me you're just starting an exotic tool collection.
Why do LDS' treat divers like idiot morons?
- Thread starter RiverRat
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Hey, didn't he just tell you not to.... you're not planning on... no, tell me you're just starting an exotic tool collection.
OP
Scubakevdm:
Well I have the most common tools and an IP guage (oh no!) So I will be ordering what I need to do the job, brass picks, spanners etc., exotic collection no. For what I paid in service fees (not complaining) I could have bought the tools and been spared the condescending BS from omnipotent j***a** shop monkeys......
but he sure got his point across.
I have seen regs that were clearly worked on by someone who made a serious mistake in servicing. That fact can be related to the owner without being condescending or making accusations.
It is important that the message is relayed and is clear.
"Uh, Joe. You know how your Magnum was free-flowing so terribly? Well, whoever took it apart last didn't replace the flow control element. They really should have caught that during re-assembly. I've put a new one in and done the proper checks. You can pick up your reg as soon as you're ready."
I have seen regs that were clearly worked on by someone who made a serious mistake in servicing. That fact can be related to the owner without being condescending or making accusations.
It is important that the message is relayed and is clear.
"Uh, Joe. You know how your Magnum was free-flowing so terribly? Well, whoever took it apart last didn't replace the flow control element. They really should have caught that during re-assembly. I've put a new one in and done the proper checks. You can pick up your reg as soon as you're ready."
OP
Drew Sailbum:
I agree, that would have been a much more professional way to explain things.
chrisch
Contributor
The answer to your original question....
Is that some dive shop operators are idiot morons and therefore they treat you the same. From the posts it looks as if the LDS in question has the servicing skills but not the communication skills to do a good job. You are pissed and they are losing business (yours). Millions of people the world over have poor communications skills, it comes with poor education or social problems or whatever (or just lack of practice). Its rarely that they are not OK people. Read this board to see badly worded postings and typos and misspellings from people who make an otherwise good point.
For what its worth my view is if the shop did a good service shrug your shoulders at the (admittedly) patronising letter and get on with your life. I'm sure there are more important things for you to concern yourself about than feeling sorry for this poor chap who has difficulty expressing himself..
Let us know how you get on with the DIY service.
Chris
Is that some dive shop operators are idiot morons and therefore they treat you the same. From the posts it looks as if the LDS in question has the servicing skills but not the communication skills to do a good job. You are pissed and they are losing business (yours). Millions of people the world over have poor communications skills, it comes with poor education or social problems or whatever (or just lack of practice). Its rarely that they are not OK people. Read this board to see badly worded postings and typos and misspellings from people who make an otherwise good point.
For what its worth my view is if the shop did a good service shrug your shoulders at the (admittedly) patronising letter and get on with your life. I'm sure there are more important things for you to concern yourself about than feeling sorry for this poor chap who has difficulty expressing himself..
Let us know how you get on with the DIY service.
Chris
Whilst i dont condone the actions of the shop monkey who left you the note, i will have to guess that Apeks when they make regs have a QA/QC type operation to catch things like that, mostly this is only a representative sample rather than every single unit they manufacture, but who knows how conciencious (sp?) they are about the quality of what they produce and how intensive their QA/QC program is - that is what i think the shop monkey might have meant, it shouldnt come from the factory like that and certainly would have been spotted by a trained tech if there had been a service before it.RiverRat:
Not meaning to completely trash LP, but how much of the saving from buying through LP have you lost due to this extra maintenance? 50% of your saving? I dont know if LDS's take regs apart and check them prior to giving them to you out of the box, i am certain LP wouldnt do that, but who knows who's hands those regs were in before LP got hold of them?
You say the reg was new with 35 dives on it. Over what period of time?
Seats will go bad from just sitting so maybe the reg wasn't as new as you think. That doesn't explain the scratch though.
If the craching pressure was high on the second stage it sounds like some one tried to detune it to hold the high intermediate pressure from the first stage. Of course if the IP is creeping that won't work because the IP will continue to rise until the second stage cracks.
When I had a shop we often had regs that sat on the shelf a LONG time before being sold. In those cases I rebuilt them before letting a customer walk out the door with them.
A friend of mine baught a Apeks reg online and had the same problem as yours. he asked if I could fix it and I gave him the price. I don't think he's a friend any more. LOL
Seats will go bad from just sitting so maybe the reg wasn't as new as you think. That doesn't explain the scratch though.
If the craching pressure was high on the second stage it sounds like some one tried to detune it to hold the high intermediate pressure from the first stage. Of course if the IP is creeping that won't work because the IP will continue to rise until the second stage cracks.
When I had a shop we often had regs that sat on the shelf a LONG time before being sold. In those cases I rebuilt them before letting a customer walk out the door with them.
A friend of mine baught a Apeks reg online and had the same problem as yours. he asked if I could fix it and I gave him the price. I don't think he's a friend any more. LOL
OP
simbrooks:
Good point, I actually discussed that with the tech, you know, where do these places actually get this stuff.
OP
MikeFerrara:
Hey Mike,
I bought the reg new last spring, going on maybe 15 months. Been diving on and off since then but they did sit for about 5 months during the winter/spring. I dove the regs a week before thay failed, they seemed to breathe fine, although was only a 35 ffw dive or so. The following weekend I went out and mounted them to my tank and they started to creep. Purged them, 15-20 seconds started to creep again etc. I took them off, remounted, then heard a "pop" when I turned the air back on. Failed just before the dive, went into failsafe, "freefllowing" as should be correct? As far as the scratch on the face of the HP seat, does not look like much to me but I'm new at this. I checked the IP not all that long ago and it was within specs. I'm guessing you are correct that these regs could have been sitting for some time before sale too. Anyway, I did notice while "dry" breathing my primary that it seems he tuned it better, seems an easier breathe than the octo, I'm guessing that's how they should be tuned? To be honest, while the tech is qualified and knows what he is doing, this was just some BS scare tactic to make me fear the all mighty LDS and make sure I bring my regs in often for a rebuild. Yeah they had sand in them, but isn't that why we clean and rebuild them? But making assumptions that I or someone I know hacked them is BS. If I did do a rebuild on them and had problems I would pull them back apart and get it right, not go running to them. I went through the same scenario with them when I bought a BP/W. They told me no way, aint gonna work for ya. You'll drown if you're not diving steel doubles. I went out and got a FredT plate/wing and totally dispelled that wives tale. They just wanted me in a SP Classic. I understand that 90% of gear sales are made to about 10% new divers in training. I got no problem with that as a guy has to make a living. But why steer me in "your" direction and not "mine"? If I own a dealership and you want to buy a truck, I'm gonna sell you a truck, not a car. Now I know where the DIR guys a coming from. They're a little strict, do it my way or the highway, but they have a point. They teach divers to be divers, to dive neutral, good buddy skills, streamlining etc. The scuba industry is screwed up big time, do it this way or you're an A**H***. In any event I'm over this, just wanted to rage a bit and I'll move on. But I'll continue to do things MY way whether anyone likes it or not. And I'm sure I'll make mistakes. But as long as I'm diving as safe as I can, and lookout for my buddy, who cares what rig I dive or how involved I get with my gear? I can tell you one thing, from what I've seen so far some LDS' are not gonna help you get neutral or trimmed out, you gotta learn that on your own around here. And I guess you should strive for that as a new diver, you need to want to learn, if you really want to be a good diver. But just hammering gear and screwed up ideals on new "sucker" divers is not a good thing.
The majority of the SCUBA diving public is 2-times a year, pretty fishy divers. As a trend, many of these divers baulk at the expense associated with the sport. These are the majority of customers at any LDS. Now what the LDSs are trying to combat is the person that isn't mechanically inclined enough to change their oil and they try to service a reg.
This is not to defend the LDS, it's just the reality. However, the shop monkeys are not *usually* malicious. It's a crappy job, you're not paid well, you get to deal with lots of people *****ing about wait times/price, and you get to work while watching other people go dive. This can create the bitter-monkey-snydrome. It's unprofessional, but it happens.
You also have to realize the economics of things. It is not a wise economic decision for an LDS to make divers self sufficient -- therefore they will never help you with that.
The good LDSs will not be condesending and conduct themselves in a professional manner. We should understand where the economics lie -- if you're not that target group, most LDSs will rub you the wrong way.
Now let's get in the water.
This is not to defend the LDS, it's just the reality. However, the shop monkeys are not *usually* malicious. It's a crappy job, you're not paid well, you get to deal with lots of people *****ing about wait times/price, and you get to work while watching other people go dive. This can create the bitter-monkey-snydrome. It's unprofessional, but it happens.
You also have to realize the economics of things. It is not a wise economic decision for an LDS to make divers self sufficient -- therefore they will never help you with that.
The good LDSs will not be condesending and conduct themselves in a professional manner. We should understand where the economics lie -- if you're not that target group, most LDSs will rub you the wrong way.
Now let's get in the water.
