Why do Advanced Open Water?

[merxlin]

Without knowing your dive experience, for me the answer is: Things are different the deeper you go. So the first time I go to 100 ft plus, it was good to go there with someone who was prepared for 1)- signs of me getting narc'd 2)- Was prepared to deal with me being narc'd 3)- was prepared for me to suck air like a vacuum 4)- made sure my ascent rate was proper. As far as the other "disciplines" that are offered, I have to admit they are a bit weak.

That being said, none of that happened to me, but did to other students. And I got to see a cool trick with a raw egg at 110 ft. Could you get that from a very knowledgeable buddy? Sure. If you trust them to handle things correctly, then there is no need for a class.

I think the problem here is that although you and many other divers may have friends and buddies that can serve as mentors in your diving, there is a larger percentage that don't have that, so need the structured teachings of an AOW class. Nobody will accuse PADI of making it too difficult, but at least it is there for those that want to take advantage of it.

It is also not the extent of your learning capability. It is possible to learn beyond a PADI class, using it as a good base.

 

[Kendall Raine]

Given that the classroom portion of the AOW is only 2-3 hours at best, what is really learned on this certification that you couldn't practice on any dive?

In addition, apparently there is some talk about only being able to go to, say, 60 ft on an open water cert, but deeper on an AOW.

Is that a PADI rule? I don't think that the other orgs (eg NAUI, YMCA) have this rule and it seems like a PADI sales tactic. I've dived on a YMCA open water and NAUI nitrox c-card all over the world, let's say 100 dives over the last 10 years, and i can't remember the last time i was above 80ft max depth, and regularly at 120ft. Never once was i told i couldn't join a dive because i didn't have AOW.

have other people been restricted on dives on a normal c-card? Has anyone felt that getting an AOW was worth it? Also i am curious about the "specialty" courses. Has anybody felt that those were worth it?

thanks
Sandtiger Steve

It's a marketing decision, as you suggest. Break courses in cheaper shorter segments. It is a way for training agencies to get paid twice, or more, for rudimentary skills they should be teaching everyone before a card is issued in the first place. Calling it "Advanced..." simply completes the cynical marketing nonsense. All part of the merit badge approach to scuba instruction. The agencies will argue segmenting is a teaching aid because students can only learn so much in one sitting. The problem is it puts under/semi-trained divers into the ocean on their own. I don't think PADI is the only one doing this. They're just the "leader."

 

[pacchill]

I had a DM who went from OW to DM in about 4 months ask me and some buddies to sign wavers for a 80 foot dive. He was talking to us like kids till we pulled our rigs out and got ready to jump in the water. I think we kind of made him feel bad, but he said it was only cuz we had no AOW cards to show. I have noticed DM seem to think that a AOW cards makes you a better dive right off the bat. From their point of view I`m sure that they get a lot of divers who claim to know how to dive like pros, and mess up simple things like mounting their regs. By the end of that dive trip we where showing the DM tips to help him diver better...
To me, the card is worth NOT getting hassled, or talked down to.

 

[Kevfin]

As sbrooks mentioned about boat operators, it's the people that run dive operations that really care. Apparently, more operations are asking to see the card. I've never been asked for one, but I have been asked about my experience level.

After that, it depends on what you want to get out of it. IMHO, if you are going to spend the money to get the card, find someone like Ber Rabbit.

 

[daniel f aleman]

Additional education never hurts. An AOW course, at the very least, shows an intent of the diver to do more than the bare minimum.

 

[Gary D.]

A certification makes it much easier to get tanks filled and allows the person certified to go on some trips. Other than that it isn’t treated like a driver’s license. Get caught driving, flying, practicing medicine or running a business without a license and you get fined as a minimum. Get caught diving without the paperwork, nothing.

Some of the shops and tour outfits are way tooooo narrow minded. Show up with an OW card and a Military, PSD or Commercial diver ID and you can’t go or are restricted to 60’ dives. My military SCUBA certification is to 150’ working 190’ Max. Yet in the civilian world I was restricted to 60’.

So to make the WWW world happy, I didn’t take the class but just paid for an SSI OW card. It is a sad day when you have to prove Lower standards of training to participate in an activity. :shakehead

Gary D.

 

[Far_X]

Like all things, businesses are out to make easy money and they are also out to protect their businesses. Some people like to collect cards, it makes them think they have achieved something. Understanding that, you cannot blame the different agencies for recognising a way to make easy money. If we all had to learn what was in the OW and AOW just to become scuba certified, there would be a hell of a lot less divers in this world and I guess there would be a hell of a lot less diving opportunites for us also.

For some divers, they may not have the opportunity or the imagination to do the variety of dives that are undertaken on a AOW. If you are doing a current dive, isn't it better to do this with someone you have paid to make sure you are ok. If you are doing a night dive for the first time, again, the same condition. Not all of us can break new ground by ourselves.

When I did my deco class, we spent more time in the class than in the water. It had to be demonstrated that the information was understood and could be applied on different dives. One day we had to go to a different wreck due to current conditions and so our pre-planned tables had to be re-cut for the different depth. The only thing we couldn't change was our gas.

So if I show up on a Caribbean boat and show my deco card instead of an OW card, what impression will be made. Will they think "Is that the same as an AOW" or "he ought to know what he is doing"? Cards of certain names are supposed to set standards. You cannot physically get everyone that comes on your boat to do a demo dive to show you know what you are doing. Having an AOW card should be demonstrating that you have dove deeper dives before and ought to have the skill set to get you back on the boat. If you have a person with only an OW card on them, you would not necessarily be wrong in thinking they may not be able to handle themselves or their buddy.

 

[scarefaceDM]

If your on a boat..and they ask for your card especially when they do not know you...it is a protection on the Operator's part..Liability issues and all that. If something goes wrong...they look at the divers card..yup OW AOW...etc..if an OW divers goes to do a dive at 90 feet...something happens..it falls onto the liability of the operator for allowing them to do a dive that technically they were no trained for...Same goes for a AOW that dives to 150 feet...not trained for it..something happens...the charter is liable for it....this can be debated for a long time...

Standards are practiced by the pros that respect them. Issuing a card means nothing really. especially if you have not dove in a few years and get beck into it...your skills are not up to par with someone with the same AOW card but dives regularly.

It boils down to your instructor whom teaches beyond the standards. If you do take an advanced course, look at how it is taught...long and slow or shot gun weekend. All depends on what your looking for in your dive training.

Deeper you go...best be trained properly to do so. If you have gone beyond your training..your risking your self and most of all your buddy. But again..I know OW divers that have many years of diving under there belts...but have limited skills mastered. Just the basics...but I would dive with them anytime.

safe dives
Stephen

 

[fisherdvm]

NAUI open water divers are certified to dive to 60 feet in conditions similar to those in which they were trained. The AOW class extends that to 130 feet. There are no scuba police as you have discovered.

Is AOW worth it? Depends on what's included and what you're looking for. My AOW class has 12-14 hours of classroom, a 2 hour pool session and a required minimum of 400 minutes of dive time during the class dives. There are good AOW classes out there where the instructors will teach you a lot and push you to be a better diver. There are a lot of AOW classes out there that don't.
Ber :lilbunny:

She's a slave driver and tougher than a drill sergeant.

 

[fisherdvm]

I found PADI AOW making me a much better diver than my OW colleages... They are correct in informing you it is easier to get on intermediate level dives if you had your AOW card.

Anyone who has doved 100 plus dives on an OW with varying depth and condition has the same, if not better abilities than a PADI AOW with limited dives... But a person with AOW has better judgement and formal training than an OW diver - assuming both has same number of dives.

The NAUI vs. PADI w. SSI garbage should be left for those who wants to enlarge their ego... But for an average recreational diver, AOW is well worth it. And it is a jumping stone for rescue diver class.... (doesn't matter whose).