Good comment. There is a slow evolution that is making things more standardized, and the "tweeks" are slowly being homogenized with these systems. The only thing that scares is the possibility of a decrease in innovation. For example, some systems are rigid and altering them is discouraged unless they come from the founder,or at least this may be inferred.
why did GUE , DIR take so long to adopt sidemount.
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Good comment. There is a slow evolution that is making things more standardized, and the "tweeks" are slowly being homogenized with these systems. The only thing that scares is the possibility of a decrease in innovation. For example, some systems are rigid and altering them is discouraged unless they come from the founder,or at least this may be inferred.
Sidemount_Stu
Contributor
I think the one of the biggest issues with the perception of sidemount, is that the vast majority of justifications and arguments, from either side of the fence, come from a perspective where the diver is in an environment pushing their limits or proper exploration etc....
The reality is, for a vast number of divers, Sidemount is used in exactly the same way it would be for backmount.... to extend recreational dives into the baby tech, or longer recreational open water dives. Most divers that are using sidemount as their primary configuration for all diving, are doing so because they're just doing relatively benign every day type dives. They would be no more or less safe in a backmounted manifolded twinset for the actual dives they're doing.... it just comes down to a choice!
I absolutely agree, that if you're pushing depths, pushing restrictions, deep cave, proper wreck diving etc..... it's all about weighing up pro's and con's and selecting the right tool for the job based on the variables and contingencies you need, and the risks you need to mitigate..... but let's face it... that probably accounts for less than 5% of the actual divers out there using Sidemount. The mainstream are just doing similar dives to what they would have done on singles, but with a little more depth, or longer bottom times... entry level deco etc.... and for this type of diving, Sidemount or Backmount really makes little to no difference.... it's purely a preference choice.
Let's at least recognise, that not all divers are doing the dives that so many of these arguments end up being based on! For those that are, some of these arguments are valid, but for those that aren't... many of them are inconsequential.....
The reality is, for a vast number of divers, Sidemount is used in exactly the same way it would be for backmount.... to extend recreational dives into the baby tech, or longer recreational open water dives. Most divers that are using sidemount as their primary configuration for all diving, are doing so because they're just doing relatively benign every day type dives. They would be no more or less safe in a backmounted manifolded twinset for the actual dives they're doing.... it just comes down to a choice!
I absolutely agree, that if you're pushing depths, pushing restrictions, deep cave, proper wreck diving etc..... it's all about weighing up pro's and con's and selecting the right tool for the job based on the variables and contingencies you need, and the risks you need to mitigate..... but let's face it... that probably accounts for less than 5% of the actual divers out there using Sidemount. The mainstream are just doing similar dives to what they would have done on singles, but with a little more depth, or longer bottom times... entry level deco etc.... and for this type of diving, Sidemount or Backmount really makes little to no difference.... it's purely a preference choice.
Let's at least recognise, that not all divers are doing the dives that so many of these arguments end up being based on! For those that are, some of these arguments are valid, but for those that aren't... many of them are inconsequential.....
I fit into the "Life style" group that Lamar Hires refers to.
After 35 years of diving & 10 years of technical diving, I switched to sidemount because it allows me to continue to diving the dives (primarily wreck) I enjoy without having to handle the doubles. I've had a total knee replacement, & 100 lbs of tanks on my back is just not do-able anymore.
Mike D
After 35 years of diving & 10 years of technical diving, I switched to sidemount because it allows me to continue to diving the dives (primarily wreck) I enjoy without having to handle the doubles. I've had a total knee replacement, & 100 lbs of tanks on my back is just not do-able anymore.
Mike D
SillyQuestions
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Erm...dives are being done regularly that you can only safely do in side mount. I've done 4 since Friday.
I do whole sumps less than 12inches high.
Some of these, I do with a figure very prominent within GUE.
Now, why don't GUE teach you to do deco dives longer than an hour bottom time?
Why don't they teach CCR beyond 30m?
Because you progress naturally within the organisation as you need to. Side mount is the same in my mind.
This is my interpretation and in no way necessarily reflects GUE or GUE members thinking.
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So? Hardly anyone does that. You having done 4 sump dives last week doesn't change that fact. BTW, sick brag, bro.
Huh?
What's your point?
JonTNY
Registered
You are mistaken and I'm not a GUE diver, GUE has no position when it comes to side mount, the dive gear manufacturer Halycon offers a side mount harness and that happens to be among the most rugged available today.
Side mount for most people is just the "cool" or "new" thing to do, in short its fashionable, very few people actually NEED side mount, there are 2 good reasons to use side mount
a) tight cave/places
b) physical limitations
Side mount is a lot like rebreather diving, its cool, new for most, fashionable but necessary for 99% of the rebreather and side mount divers of........nope.
And that just fine people are entitled to have options and choices, be hit training, style or equipment.
And GUE divers have used side mount for years ........... when necessary.
Cheers,
JonT
Dhboner
Contributor
So why is sidemount NOT appropriate in open water? What are the drawbacks of having your valves and failure points in your field of vision at all times. What is trendy about 2 completely independent gas sources with the ability to feather a valve in the even of free flow. Why am I just trying to be "cool" when I can hand off an entire tank to a diver in a gas sharing emergency. You seem to have all the answers ;-)
As far as I know, GUE has no sidemount instructors, course, or configuration. Halcyon has sidemount BC however. So I'm not sure where the OP is getting the impression that sidemount is now part of GUE's "endorsed" universe. Although some of us are GUE trained and use sidemount for appropriate dives. Those would be 1) small caves where doubles don't fit or 2) sumps where you will break your legs trying to walk in doubles to get there or in between sumps. As a general rule sidemount wouldn't be for open water (perhaps a partially collapsed wreck or one with tiny doors?). There are other more appropriate configurations for that and they may be OC doubles, or a rebreather depending on the dive.
As others have said I am consistently disappointed to see some people/instructors pushing sidemount as some sort of universal configuration which excels everywhere. I don't know why scubaboard attracts them as I never see that viewpoint elsewhere.
As others have said I am consistently disappointed to see some people/instructors pushing sidemount as some sort of universal configuration which excels everywhere. I don't know why scubaboard attracts them as I never see that viewpoint elsewhere.
I have said this before in another thread,and sorry if it sounds repetitive. Back around 1996 DEMA banned all references to Nitrox, and it became the so called "voo doo" gas. Then it was grasped by the dive industry, and the next DEMA there was a huge marketing explosion of materials, certifying programs, gear, tshirts etc etc. In an industry where a majority of the people buy there gear and get trained ,this will stagnate. Any opportunity to get someone to open their wallet and buy training and equipment, there is suddenly a market explosion, hence the nitrox example. Rebreathers have hit the scene,but they are too pricey for the average dive consumer,but sidemount isn't. So we have have seen an exponential explosion of equipment, and instructors for teaching sidemount,some good, some really bad. The parallel of when nitrox had huge consumer demand in the 90s and sidemount now are very similar.
Which Halcyon sales rep told you that?
Fixed that for you.
But seriously, this argument you're making I hear all the time but it doesn't make any sense. I feel like it's just something people hear and repeat, like 'SM is a tool', duh, a mask is a tool and so are my fins.
SM is a legitimate alternative to doubles in almost every situation. Sure you don't need it unless in tight cave obviously, but there is no NEED for doubles either in most situations.
There is abolutely no actual reason not to dive sidemount in OW. Having said that, there is also not really a reason why you shouldn't use doubles. Both can be done safely as long as you know what you're doing.
And, again: You can't compare rebreathers with SM. Breathers have killed a bunch of people. Has there ever been an incident were somebody got hurt because they were diving SM? Being 'trendy' right now is all breathers and SM have in common.
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