Why certify?

[seaducer]

I am breaking off a point made in the solo forum, it raises an interesting question in my mind...

This isn't right. The dive industry and specifically shops, resorts and boats need to step up and acknowledge any certification from an accredited agency - especially Solo Diver. That's no different than not allowing someone to deco dive who has the training and cert. Not good from the industry.

I'll disagree ... dive charters should have the right to set their own criteria, based on their own goals and risk assessments. As long as they're clear and consistent, they are under no obligation to recognize anyone's certification.

So it makes me wonder, what is the point of certifications, if dive ops, boats and shops should be under no obligation to recognize them? I think it should be pointed out, the conversation is about known and accredited agencies, not Joe Public printing his own cards in the basement. And I would separate training and certifications as well.

Your thoughts?

 

[AdvancedAquarist]

Its to ensure the divers know how to dive safely

 

[AndyNZ]

So it makes me wonder, what is the point of certifications, if dive ops, boats and shops should be under no obligation to recognize them?

I would guess, in terms of charter companies, that most of their decisions and policies are driven by minimising operational risk.

Let's throw away all certifications, so any Joe Schmo can walk on to a boat and go diving... does that reduce the operational risk of the charter company?

I suspect that the certifications that are not recognised by charter boats would be more fringe ones, such as a solo diver card. If the company has a policy of no solo diving (because it reduces their perceived risk) then why should they make an exception just because someone has a card?

The restrictions I've come across the most are: no solo diving, no diving deeper than 40m, no decompression, no dives longer than an hour. I have varying strengths of dislike of these reactions - but if my personal feelings are that strong, I just find another charter.

I don't see how anyone starting a charter business will start off thinking "I know, let's ignore all certifications and just make a judgement on the person"...

 

[Jax]

Noob Q: How much does the "no solo" have to do with money? If you have to find a partner, they would get another diver, right?

Perhaps if more people voted with their wallet, and informed dive ops they won't dive with them because of their "no solo" policy, the recognition would grow. It's the only way to push individual responsibility to the forefront.

 

[Hockeynut]

Its to ensure the divers know how to dive safely

How come so many don't?

 

[B Lo]

While this is not to constitute legal advice, as someone who has been through law school, it seems entirely reasonable that businesses be allowed to set what they consider to be appropriate limits to what they choose to recognize. As has been mentioned above, if you don’t like it, complain and/or don’t dive with them. If enough people choose not to dive with them, they’ll either change their policies or go out of business.

If, on the other hand, PADI or whichever certification agency the particular business is affiliated with required those affiliated with them to recognize particular certifications, that might be a different story. Even still, that would be an issue between PADI (or whichever) and the affiliated business; you wouldn’t likely be entitled to enforce any such obligations.

Regardless, any changes obligating a particular business to accept a given certification would realistically have to originate from the certification agency/agencies that business may be affiliated with. This top-down method seems to be the only reasonable way to make it happen.

This is sort of like credit card companies generally forbidding minimum purchase amounts. Nearly all merchants will accept credit cards even for inexpensive items. There are still some, however, that make a fuss about it. But, by and large, the majority of merchants will let you charge a stick of gum. If it weren’t required by their contract with their credit card processor/merchant bank, it wouldn’t happen. The same logic applies to the SCUBA industry.

 

[AndyNZ]

Noob Q: How much does the "no solo" have to do with money? If you have to find a partner, they would get another diver, right?

Unlikely, to be honest. Most charter companies will just pair lone divers up on the day, so you don't have to turn up with a buddy, or just put them into a guided group.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Just because you run it, doesn't mean they will buy it!

Here on Maui we recently had an advanced, technical, rebreather friendly, doubles and deco charter start offering serious dives in places only a NAVY RIB would go. They did not renew their permits this year and one partner is captaining/guiding for a middle of the pack tourist charter while the other is running a snorkel companies snuba/dive program.

Meanwhile, the company with the big cattle barge that uses 72 cft's and rarely has a dive over 45 minutes is the one selling enough Molokai maybe see hammerheads charters to go every week.

 

[ajduplessis]

How come so many don't?

Weak and unprofessional instructors. Please note that not all blame lies with the instructor. You also get some real idiots and divers pushing limits, looking to "proof" things.

 

[DCBC]

So it makes me wonder, what is the point of certifications, if dive ops, boats and shops should be under no obligation to recognize them? I think it should be pointed out, the conversation is about known and accredited agencies, not Joe Public printing his own cards in the basement. And I would separate training and certifications as well. Your thoughts?

Certifications are an indicator of the type of training a diver has successfully completed from the perspective of one instructor. Different agencies and various instructors interpret the requirements differently.

Added to this, the training was conducted in certain conditions, which may not be adequately understood by the dive operator. The diver may not have experience in the conditions present at the dive-site in question.

Charter operators have experienced too many divers that although they were qualified to make the dive on paper, couldn't. This may be the result of low training standards, or the fact that the diver may not have kept current with his skills. The certification card does not give any indication of how much diving that diver has done since the certification was issued.

When I had a dive charter operation, I was faced with a consistent stream of divers who could not dive independently without supervision (although their card indicated that they were capable to do so). Once this happens to you a few times, you start to depend less on what the card says and rely more on your own assessment.

If the particular dive is more advanced, it is vital to identify that the diver is in-fact capable of safely completing the dive before accepting them on a charter. This is at times a real balancing act, as you want to respect what the card says, but at the same time you want to ensure the safety of the diver.