Why aren't more people taking up scuba diving?

[TMHeimer]

In lieu of re-reading posts from 8 months ago, it would be interesting to hear from (non-resort) people, shop owners, instructors, etc. about how their local LDS is doing. From what I can see there has been no change here in OW classes being every weekend March to Dec. (plus the odd week nights ones). The shop seems about as busy as always in the last 9 years I've been in there.

 

[boulderjohn]

Trace, do you allow your girlfriend to use a fork?

Saudi Arabia Seriously Considering Allowing Women to Use Forks - The Daily Currant

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I'll even let her use this Funslinger (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs7cML_8NWY). I want one! I think little boys would be helped by this too (outside of the zero tolerance policies of school).

 

[Z Gear]

Don't do that!

---------- Post added December 30th, 2013 at 11:37 PM ----------

I think some of the problem might be tight fisted divers.
I'm spending some vacation time in Florida with my kids; Destin area.

I stopped by a dive shop, just to check it out. While there, I asked about their boat schedule.
The guy told me that it was $90 for a two-tank boat dive. He saw the shocked look on my face....and then I asked....
..."Are you kidding me??.....It's only $90 for a two-tank boat dive?"

That's so cheap! What a deal. I don't see how the boat operation is making much money on that price.
I wish it was that cheap back in Japan.

He told me that many divers in the area acted like it was too much.

With a customer base that isn't willing to spend money, it's no surprise that many shops struggle.

For me its kind of like skiing or snow boarding. I don't see those customers complaining about all the gear they have to purchase:,lift tickets etc....
Its depends if you really love to do something you will invest your time, money and even endure elements which others would not. If you don't really love the snow, cold etc.. you might find it to expensive, even outrageous to spend so much money, just to slide down a mountain on a pair of skis or a snow board!!

It is really quite simple, LCD owners are just trying to make an honest living by providing a walk in location for people who are interested or love diving. I don't think they are trying to figure out how to get the masses in the door. "Most" of them don't hold free scuba pool introductions or lesson to the public. They know that this is a sport that you want to try to take seriously because it does have hidden risks that are not so obvious like snow boarding, skiing stand up paddling or any of the other popular sports/hobbies. The sport actually benefits when not everybody says ya I'm a diver also. You earned the right to say I'm a certified diver, and you can feel good about that. Having something that takes some type of commitment/ training brings value and prestige to the sport. People easily recognize and know that you have to be certified to be able to dive and they respect that, its a feeling of accomplishment. In my view.

I am not a shop owner but I could sympathize with them and understand how difficult it can be, when you constantly hear that everything in that sport is to expensive. Yet those same people don't have any problem buying the latest snow board gear, reserving accommodations/lift tickets, etc...and nothing in that type of sport is cheap. The only difference is if you really enjoy the sport you have a feeling that its worth it. Its all personal choice and preference. I may think the whole snow boarding package is to expensive for it ( and I have snow boarded), to become one of my regular hobbies. But someone else may think it is totally worth it.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

There really isn't a lot of really good data for all these questions, frankly.

There is no question that there are local dive shops closing, but that could be, as has been suggested, a result of Internet sales.

I got a good idea about that myself recently when trying to purchase some technical gear that is not at all mainstream. The dive shop with which I work does its best to give me the best prices they can. I asked about a pretty unusual piece--a helium/oxygen analyzer. I am sure they have never sold one in the history of their existence, and I would probably be their only customer ever for that item in the future. They contacted the company, with whom they have a business relationship, and the company told them what it would cost them at their level of business. (The more business you do, the better the wholesale price you get from the manufacturer.) I had the email forwarded to me--my shop was willing to let me buy it at the wholesale price, earning not one dime on their own for brokering the deal.

I could get it for much less by buying it online from one of the big outlets at their advertised price, paying full retail. That's how much their volume discount was.

How can a local shop in a small market compete with that? No wonder they are gong out of business.

That particular problem lies right at the feet of manufacturer.
I worked for an airbrush paint company years ago and was the west coast rep for the product and also the global test pilot/ R&D guy for the product globally. I had many hours/days /weeks with the owner of the company discussing various business topics, and one was exactly what you are describing about large volume discounts.
This new product we were developing was brand new and cutting edge at the time, and he had reservations about letting the big guys swing him around by his chain (his words) regarding sales of this new line of paint. He decided in all fairness and for the benefit of HIS company, to sell the product to all retailers for a standard fixed wholesale price regardless of quantity and with no minimum order requirements. The big guys like BearAir in MA were furious and threatened to discontinue all his products if he imposed this "garbage" upon them. He said fine, he was tired of them and their tacticts and he wanted to see the small guy get a chance. He also told them if they tried to undercut everybody he would stop selling to them. He figured having more small guys spread out everywhere was better coverage for him than one big behemoth internet seller. So it went, he called their bluff and the big behemoth didn't discontinue, they just sucked it up and paid the price. They wouldn't dare, this product was a huge seller for them. The general public had no idea what was going on behind the scenes. I was the guy going around to all the small paint stores doing demos and installing racks of new product.
Everywhere you went the price was the same so people just walked in to their local store and got what they wanted. No searching the internet for the place that sells it for half price. They had nothing to worry about.

Just the other day I was in my local dive shop. They said at one point they looked into buying from Halcyon.
The problem was Halcyon wanted an initial sale of $5000 for them to order anything and become a dealer. $5000!! are you kidding me??
So they forgot about it and moved on.
They might be selling BP/W's right now but after that they decided to just stay with AL and Sp and sell jackets.
Why couldn't blue H just sell them a minimum order at wholesale and charge shipping? who cares, a sale is a sale.

 

[PhatD1ver]

Why is it the biggest problem? PADi alone adds about one million new scuba divers to the ranks each year and has been doing so for the last 10 years.

In 2000 there were about 11,000,000 PADI divers, in 2012 there are 21,000,000. In 1969 it took almost 5 years to add 100,000 scuba divers to the ranks, today we are reaching the point pretty quickly of adding 100,000 new divers a month.

According to PADI the median age of a scuba diver is 29 years old and has been hanging steady at 29 for at least the last 6 years.

Scuba is just a jniche sport so the numbers are never going to approach other main stream sports, but I don't see the signs that the sport is dying.

Biggest problem I see in the industry is just a lot of really poor business people who own dive shops, still relying on a 1970s business model of selling scuba gear as a main income source.

Ohhhh, Mike and I agree on something... This summer while home in the US, I had a chance to visit four or five shops of varying sizes. Of them, two stand out...

One a 'large' shop, with it's own pool, a good selection of equipment from 2-3 suppliers, and their own wetsuits. They had a knowledgable instructor who I used for my drysuit training, and who trained my wife... back to this in a minute.

The other shop was small, with enough room for a small counter and a single two sided clothing rack in the middle, the walls were covered with pegboard hooks and other items of equipment. This shop was run by the owner, he does most of the training (also teaches scuba thru the local university), and he runs the local dive club... not a lot of selection overall, good quality stuff, but nothing that would stand out, mid-range stuff that will get a diver by for years.

Now, in comparing the two, obviously, size is a big factor. But in terms of management, I'd give that to the smaller shop. It isn't just that the owner is more personable, or that he doesn't push sales (I don't know anyone who could survive if they didn't)... but it's the fact that the owner is hands on, he's involved with scheduling the training.

The other shop, now with two locations in a major SoCal market, the owner has obviously made his money. He's stand offish, doesn't feel like he needs to interact with customers spending good money in his shop, he leaves that for the peons. But what kind of burned me more, and is a reason I'll probably not ever go back, is that I paid for my wife and SIL to take their OW from these guys on a 'private' lesson schedule, and according to their site they would work with you. But the kicker is that their primary instructor who is 'available' other than weekends works in the store full-time. So classes and dives had to be scheduled around his work schedule. He makes more working IN the store, so why would he arrange his schedule to lose hours for a OW course? To me, that's on the owner. You have people spending $450 a pop for the OW course (already put out $160 each for the e-learning to help streamline it), and spare me the "we don't make any money on training"... they are buying equipment in your shop to the tune of $1800, and you can't make the schedule more flexible, or pull a few hours behind the counter yourself?

I also did my drysuit training here, and paid for the instructors day on the boat to dive with me. And again the owner when I popped in the shop a couple days later with a question about a local shore dive, he couldn't take time from his standing around to answer the question.

Maybe I'm more old school about running a business. I think businesses are operated to make money, and the key principle in that is 'free advertising' and return customers. More than anything, that's the big difference between these two shops. One owner took time to work with me, discuss my dry suit, even help fit me with new fins (which ultimately I passed on, but he didn't take it personal).. the other acted like he was doing me a service opening the doors in the morning (at 9am - why wouldn't you have at least a skeleton staff available at 6am to rent out tanks, weights, or other things that people coming in to town for boat dives in the marina a mile away need that early?)... anyway, I'm with Mike, there are some basic business principles that could increase profits and revenue in most shops. That are just too much WORK for them.

 

[DKL]

From my experience with the younger crowd, some of them approach me about wanting to get certified, but they get sticker shock when they start looking into it. You can get geared up for other sport much cheaper and you don't have to get a c-card. The usual feedback from them once they look into diving is ........ it's way to expensive. In the current economy people don't have a thousand dollars of expendable funds for hobbies. You can get geared up for other sports for just a couple hundred bucks or less. Or just play video games in Mom and Dads basement......that seems to be the new sport. 30 something living in the basement...no job....no ambition no nothing...just a pack of cigs and a twelve pack of cheap beer that they buy with their EBT card. Welcome to the new America.

 

[PhatD1ver]

I still have to believe that "the dabblers" used to pay a lot of people's rent. I'm not so sure why many people seem to be so against people who are willing to try diving for a bit, don't love it as much as we do, and then move on to something else.

You say good riddance. I say "thanks for stopping by!"

This is the fundamental error in shop owner mentality for small businesses that cater to a model like SCUBA... not everyone is going to make it stick.

But the LDS is also the focal point for retention in scuba diving. The retention rate is low because dive shops don't feel any compulsion to keep divers active who aren't going to be in their shop again. That's what's killing the industry more than anything.

For instance, I was certified in Thailand (love my boys at Andaman Dive Adventures), but the system isn't set up with a 'referral' system for new divers. A guy gets certified on vacation (or in my case a follow up trip to my DSD dive a couple months earlier) and no one takes time to sit down at the end of the last day of diving while they are handing out a t-shirt and say "so, when do you think you'll do your next dive?" or "hey, let me get you the information on a couple LDS in your local area at home, if you get in touch with them, they'll help you find opportunities to dive and keep your skills sharp, I'll give you a referral card, and also send them an email and share yours with them so you don't lose contact"

Think about what would happen if THOUSANDS of dive resorts and shops around the world shared information on new divers? think about how many new divers might still be diving and spending money today, and attracting friends to dive with them near their homes if a shop had referred them? and if one of the local shops who was referred bothered to make a call and INVITE this new diver to their shop or on a club dive in the near future? I can tell you that it works.

And then there is the weak effort on the part of LDS to really participate and MANAGE the workings of a dive club. Clubs need some place to meet. Even if it's a high school gym or cafeteria. You think most school principals wouldn't like to see their students participating in challenging activities like diving over climbing skyscrapers or tipping cows?

Dive trips aren't easy, but that's because most shops only sponsor the bigger trips to distant and/or exotic locations. But the dives that really get people active and keep them diving are the local dives, and sometimes that means owner, instructors, and DMs doing a little advance work and maybe even diving a body of water rarely considered by local divers. I realize many LDS do have local dive programs, but I'm saying the way to keep divers active is to give them options. And options that can compete economically with the other distractions of life. It may also mean that an LDS needs to work closely with a local travel company. If you keep your divers active, eventually they want to plan to attend one of the bigger trips. If every trip is filled for two years in advance (see scubaboard invasions) you aren't going to retain many. But if you keep options open, plan a 10-12 person trip every 6-8 weeks, people tend to migrate to those things, and maybe you have to drop a trip because everyone is dived out, or discount it, or promote it with an equipment give away... if you have 8 trips running a year with 10-12 people, out of one LDS, you can afford to promote them now and again.

Same with regional activities. Imagine if groups of LDS in different areas of the US traded activities and did joint dive activities?

Anyway, I can go on and on with ways I think the system can be improved. Sadly, I'm on the outside looking in at this point. But I'm also seriously considering hanging a shingle and seeing if I can't make my ideas work.

 

[TSandM]

John, I went through something similar back when I wanted to buy an oxygen analyzer. My LDS was willing to order it for me, but the minimum order was $1500 or something from that company to a store. On the other hand, the company would sell me the analyzer on line, so that's what I ended up doing.

 

[shoredivr]

For people saying scuba is too expensive for younger people, think about how easily they spend $500 or more on a smart phone. Or $1200 on a laptop. Or $200 on running shoes. Or $150 on jeans. Or $800 on a dirt bike.

Oh, wait: it's their parents buying this stuff.