Info Why are tables not taught in OW classes anymore?

[L13]

That’s nonsense. No golfer ever says that. You go to the range to practice “driving”, “irons” or “chipping”. You just made that up.

ok

 

[L13]

yes yes of course, you think that both uses of the term, which are by their very nature contradictory, are valuable. Someone says "white" and you will argue that white looks black - in the dark. Makes perfect sense and aids tremendously in communication.

To prove my point, I could say, "Joe got bent on a no-deco dive". Everyone (reasonable people anyway) will understand roughly what that means.

They are not contradictory.

 

[johndiver999]

They are not contradictory.

black and white?

 

[L13]

But I learned a lot during that research. One of the things I learned is that there really is a difference between NDL dives and decompression dives, which is why I get touchy when people say all dives are decompression dives. Yes, all dives include decompression, but the phrase "decompression dive" has acquired a specific meaning limited to a specific kind of dive.

If the dives are fundamentally different, then you should be able to say whether a 15min dive to 30m is fundamentally an NDL dive or fundamentally a deco dive. It shouldn't just depend on what setting I put in my computer. The truth is that with one understanding of the term we draw a sharp line in a gray field and behave differently depending which side of the line we are on. With the other understanding we recognize the fact that there is a grey field and we try to understand it's nature (mostly so we can pick a good place to draw that sharp line, and choose good behaviors for each side).

 

[L13]

black and white?

"decompression dive"="dive with decompression", and "decompression dive"="dive with required decompression stops given a particular method for determine the need for decompression stops".

I have never debated black and white on SB.

 

[boulderjohn]

Someone says "white" and you will argue that white looks black in the dark. Makes perfect sense and aids tremendously in communication.

The difference between black and white leads to a good example of the importance of understanding how phrases take on meanings that differ from their component words.

We use the phrase "black and blue" to describe someone who is bruised, but if you break that phrase down by words, it makes no sense. There is a reason. After the Norman invasion in 1066, the language of the nobility was French, and that was the common language used in literature. French and the native English language mingled over the years. The phrase "blanc and bleu, often spelled "blak and bleu," was used to describe someone who was dead. With a corpse, the blood settles, and the body is white in some places and blue in others. The phrase used the French "blanc" for "white." Over time, the confusion of using a term that means "white" but sounds like "black" led to our dropping the French word for "white" from general usage.

So today the term "black and blue" is a phrase we understand, but its meaning makes no sense in relation to either its current use or to the origin of the phrase. If you heard someone use the phrase today, you would be an idiot if you stepped in and gave the etymology lesson above to prove they were using the phrase incorrectly.

 

[L13]

The difference between black and white leads to a good example of the importance of understanding how phrases take on meanings that differ from their component words.

We use the phrase "black and blue" to describe someone who is bruised, but if you break that phrase down by words, it makes no sense. There is a reason. After the Norman invasion in 1066, the language of the nobility was French, and that was the common language used in literature. French and the native English language mingled over the years. The phrase "blanc and bleu, often spelled "blak and bleu," was used to describe someone who was dead. With a corpse, the blood settles, and the body is white in some places and blue in others. The phrase used the French "blanc" for "white." Over time, the confusion of using a term that means "white" but sounds like "black" led to our dropping the French word for "white" from general usage.

So today the term "black and blue" is a phrase we understand, but its meaning makes no sense in relation to either its current use or to the origin of the phrase. If you heard someone use the phrase today, you would be an idiot if you stepped in and gave the etymology lesson above to prove they were using the phrase incorrectly.

So basically you are saying common usage is what determines mean.

And yet, while explicitly acknowledging the commonality of a particular usage of "decompression dive" you deny its legitimacy a meaning for the phrase.

You had the same thing going on with respect to SAC. People argued that others were using it wrong, that it had a common meaning the was sacrosanct. Then they did the survey and found the population here was almost evenly split on its meaning, with a bias in one direction in the US and the opposite direction in Europe. Then (almost) everyone suddenly realized you could be comfortable with both just by using units when you quoted your SAC.

 

[jale]

Hi
Should not all these pedantic explanations about English usage be removed from the basic forum?

 

[inquis]

Then all dives are deco dives.

When all rocks in a pile are black, it would be silly of me to ask you for a black rock.

 

[L13]

When all rocks in a pile are black, it would be silly of me to ask you for a black rock.

But perfectly reasonable, when all the rocks in a pile are black, to call it a black rock pile. And perfectly reasonable to make note of the fact that they are all black and not half black and half white. And maybe even reasonable, after noting that they are all "black", that in fact some are actually dark grey but it is still appropriate to call it a pile of black rocks. Unless you are talking to an pedant, then they will tell you that none of the rocks are actually completely black, and that all the people calling it a black rock pile are wrong.