Why are BP/W users more common on this board than at the beach?

[MikeFerrara]

when I learned to dive (circa 1978) we didn't use BCDs at all. just a plate and a tank. and I still find myself with zero air in the wing at the end of the dive anyway, so does this mean that the BCD is a crutch ( for a lack of a better word) for divers that lack proper training to begin with. HMMMMM makes me think?

I don't think a bc is a crutch. If you dive where it's warm and you can dive in swim trunks with a small tank you shouldn't need a bc. On the other hand if you need a suit that will compress at depth or you need to carry much gas you will need one.

some of (if not the first) divers to use them were cave divers that needed a way to stay off the bottom when they weren't swimming. If they stopped kicking they sunk, silted, got lost and died. They started with things like plastic jugs on the end of a string that they could put air into or dump air from. The need was not due to a lack of skill.

While it's kind of neat to watch the old Custau (sp?) shows and see them light on the bottom any time they stop, I sure am glad we don't have to dive that way any more.

to this day few divers are taught to use a bc correctly in early training. I don't think we're talking about the " lost art of diving" as some have called it. It's more like bc's and using them (buoyancy control and trim) just haven't yet been fully integrated into training yet. Divers are taught while kneeling on the bottom still like they had to before the invention of the bc. Buoyancy control is stuck in the class like an afterthought rather than the central theme that it is.

Do a dive in a way that you on kick if you want to move and don't intend to touch or disturb the bottom ever and it becomes hard to call a bc a crutch.

 

[keelhaul123]

Most divers are recreational divers and have little to no need for a "tech" rig. Of those shops that have converted to tech, many have failed or have found themselves unable to meet the needs of the majority of the true customer base. Granted the tech wannabees around here will scream with anecdotal comments about how they have a great shop that caters to GUE people.
Think about it really. A typical dive shop certifies new divers year round, of those, a portion will purchase BC's and regs, the rest will be content with renting gear on their infrequent trips to warm places.
As convinced as some might be, a BP/W is not for everyone, not even most people. Any dive shop owner in their right mind is only going to sell the equipment that people ask for, and they don't ask for BP/W and a 12' octo hose. The recreational diver that has tech gear may be happy with it, but that is equipment that is certainly not designed with the typical diver in mind.

Why are BP/W more common on this board? Merely a difference in demographics and psychographics of the users of this board. Why do you not see that equipment more often at the beach? Because the equipment is not designed for the average diver, and furthermore, because the certification agencies associated with the equipment place themselves in that position. GUE and the DIR niche (key word niche) have characteristics* that make them less appealing to most certified divers




*on average in general

I just bought my first BPW this fall and for me it wasn't because its a TECH setup but rather its a much simpler setup than most BCs. I first got certified in '77 and all we used back then was one of those old pear shaped backplates with harness and a horsecollar. Now I know they weren't training us as tech divers back then. However, life intervened, college, marriage, work, and I didn't dive after 1980 for another 20 years. So when I got back into it in 2000 there were BCs, SPG's....hey what happened to my reserve? lol. I bought all my own equipment shortly after recertifying and one item was a seaquest jacket BC. OK, it works but has shortcomings...like too much constriction when inflated, pockets that really are pretty useless (put some air in the BC and they become near impossible to use), and the tank just never seems to want to sit still. So after considering it for about a year I finally took the plunge and bought the BPW. To me its simplicity is its best feature. I have less trouble getting in and out of it while wearing my neoprene drysuit, and while I haven't gotten any yet, there are a number of options for pockets that I can add that seem much more usable than those integrated into BCs.
I am not a tech diver, nor a wannabe. Probably 90% of my diving is off the beach in 40' or less depths. But I believe this setup works better for me...i.e. more comfortable.So I guess in the end...its all what you feel most comfortable in and what works for you!

 

[OE2X]

I think most BP/Wing users have migrated from jackets and/or back inflate BC's. I also think they for the most part think that the BW/Wing is better, and want to pass that along to others. So when someone asks "should I buy xxx $1000 super BC?" they see there own mistakes and want to help the person avoid making the same mistakes.

Absolutely. This is exactly my experience.

 

[OE2X]

when I learned to dive (circa 1978) we didn't use BCDs at all. just a plate and a tank. and I still find myself with zero air in the wing at the end of the dive anyway, so does this mean that the BCD is a crutch ( for a lack of a better word) for divers that lack proper training to begin with. HMMMMM makes me think?

Well at the end of a dive if you are properly weighted you shouldn't have any air in your wing. Is a wing a crutch when you are at 110' and only 5 minutes into your dive? I'm betting you have some air in your wing then.

Truthfully - when I hit my 15' stop near the end of an hour long dive I will have some air in my wing. Reason is because I still have around 1500 psi in my steel tank. In other words it is still a few pounds negative. When I did my weight check it was with the tank at 200 psi.

 

[H2Andy]

could it be a hidden agenda that the fine folks here represent.

lol it's not too hidden... we all run our mouths about how much we love
our bp/wings

 

[H2Andy]

Missionary? I think it's more like divers being eager to share some of the things that helped their diving.

yep

 

[RiverRat]

People on SB are more educated than many divers whose realm of expertise often doesn't no extend outside there LDS, how can you dive a bp/wing if you have never even heard on one?

You can't. So many shops are disingenuous to say the least. All in the name of sales. How, as a shop owner, a "promoter" of a sport that is dangerous, can you spew this crap out just to make a sale? How can these guys sleep at night? I couldn't. Many accidents happen to divers while they are new and learning. You know just enough to get you out on a deep reef and not enough to save your *** if the crap hits the fan. Just take a look at some of the more popular dive mags. Overweight divers in pink BCD's, yellow snorkels and purple split fins with 1000 pound weight belts posing on the bottom for some society ad. Scary. All I can say is do what you think is right. Dive what works for you. Promote good safe diving to the masses.

 

[MASS-Diver]

You can't. So many shops are disingenuous to say the least. All in the name of sales. How, as a shop owner, a "promoter" of a sport that is dangerous, can you spew this crap out just to make a sale? How can these guys sleep at night? I couldn't. Many accidents happen to divers while they are new and learning. You know just enough to get you out on a deep reef and not enough to save your *** if the crap hits the fan. Just take a look at some of the more popular dive mags. Overweight divers in pink BCD's, yellow snorkels and purple split fins with 1000 pound weight belts posing on the bottom for some society ad. Scary. All I can say is do what you think is right. Dive what works for you. Promote good safe diving to the masses.

Actually, in your case, you are lucky to have a great LDS in your State. They put OW students in bp/wings - they lots of hog rigs and although they are a PADI shop, all their instructors (in additional to all the PADI requirments) must have passed DIR-f. They are big on continuing education too. It's the best shop I've every encountered, so there are exceptions out there.

 

[RiverRat]

Actually, in your case, you are lucky to have a great LDS in your State. They put OW students in bp/wings - they lots of hog rigs and although they are a PADI shop, all their instructors (in additional to all the PADI requirments) must have passed DIR-f. They are big on continuing education too. It's the best shop I've every encountered, so there are exceptions out there.

Interesting. I'd like to know the name of them for reference.

 

[Chad Carney]

No this is not a troll (and if it's been discussed - my apologies) It was pointed out in a recent thread (http://www.scubaboard.com/t90191-bcd-toss-upagain.html #15)

Originally Posted by Chad Carney
"An interesting fact is that BP&W usage on this board is hugely disproportional to that of the rest of the diver population in the country."
Chad

__________________


Wow!! I had no idea my simple observation last night would set off such a reaction... spawning new threads and even a poll!

Kinda like when, as a brand new member, I posted the seemingly harmless question... "Why does DIR rate it's own category in the training section?"
That started a frenzie that went on for months!

No doubt the internet and forums are changing the sport and business of diving.
Many of the trends developing on this and other forums are beginning to look cyclical. Behavioral characteristics seem to be surfacing.
It will be interesting to watch as it all plays out!

Chad